Gay Pastors Reinstated In Atlanta
May 5th, 2010 - 8:19 pm ICT by Pen Men At Work ( 295 comments )May 5, 2010 (Pen Men at Work): A Lutheran denomination is in the throes of reinstating a gay pastor and his companion to its clergy register.
The Evangelical Lutheran Church is an American entity based in Chicago. In a proclamation discharged on Tuesday, it elucidated that the Rev. Bradley Schmeling and the Rev. Darin Easler have been permitted for reinstatement.
Schmeling had functioned as the pastor of the St. John Lutheran Church in Atlanta. He was eradicated from the church’s clergy register in 2007. The rationale for the eradication was that Schmeling was in a same-sex relationship with Easler. His homosexual association with Easler was the reason for his eradication.
The church, in the previous month, implemented modifications to the ministry policy papers. The implementation of these modifications will clear the path for eligible Lutherans, who are in openly answerable, permanent, monogamous and same-sex ties, to function as clergy.
Easler was eradicated from the clergy catalog in 2006 after he had been without a parish for three years.
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Tags: bradley schmeling, clergy, companion, eradication, evangelical lutheran church, gay pastor, implementation, john lutheran church, lutheran denomination, lutherans, men at work, ministry policy, pastors, pen men, rationale, reinstatement, same sex relationship, st john lutheran church, throes, ties
May 5th, 2010 at 9:37 pm
Leviticus :20:13 tell pastor to read carefully
May 5th, 2010 at 9:42 pm
an abomination before God!
May 5th, 2010 at 9:52 pm
Sad day when a mentally ill person is put in charge of our morals.
May 5th, 2010 at 10:24 pm
I pray that God will reveal the truth about this practicing sin of sexual immorality called homosexuality to these so-called preachers. They are definitely not proclaimers of the Gospel of Christ and they will surely be judged more strictly by God for their false teachings and example before their parishoners. The Lutheran Church does not speak for the Body of Christ because those in the Body of Christ follow his wisdom and teachings that call homosexuality and other sexual sins as fornication and adultery an abomination.
May 5th, 2010 at 10:28 pm
These men are not men of God and should not be responsible for the spiritual needs of a church when they themselves are committing a horrific sin. They are compromising Bible truth to satisfy their sinful desire. And the church leaders are just as wrong.
May 5th, 2010 at 10:55 pm
It is sad times we live in. The bible speaks against homosexuality and no matter what, you can’t turn the word of God into something that suits you and the life you CHOOSE to live.
May 5th, 2010 at 11:05 pm
All of you that read Leviticus and Romans need to study what the Bible was really saying and what happened to be going on at the time of each writing. Shame on all of you who point fingers when you have three pointing right back at yourselves.
May 5th, 2010 at 11:09 pm
Our God is a loving Father that forgive us when we repent from our sins. I believe these so called,”church leaders” know that they are rebeling against God’s ordenances. They are purposely ignoring what’s said in the word of God; Leviticus 18: 4-5 ” Ye shall do my judgements and keep my ordinances, to walk therin: I am the Lord”. And further, in verse 22;” Thou shalt not lie with mankind,as with womankind: It is ABOMINATION. The woman was created for the man. Nevertheless is the man w/o the woman, neither the woman w/ the man(1 Chorintians 11: 9,11). And reagarding what god they are really serving… “Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?( Mathew 7:16) I rest my case. Their case will NOT stand a chance in the Judgement day. Let’s God be the judge!
May 5th, 2010 at 11:11 pm
God made Adam and Eve NOT Adam and Steve..God distroyed Sodom and Gomorrah BECAUSE of ellicet
sex and other ungodly actions…its a sad day when clergy fear retalliation from political groups, politics and church are 2 different issues..MORALLY it is a SIN to sleep with another man…
May 5th, 2010 at 11:15 pm
Jesus Christ, the Son of God and our Savior said”You shall be know, if you love one another as I have loved you”. It is further written “Judge not so the ye shall not be judged.” If they are right or they are wrong that is for God to decide not us.
May 5th, 2010 at 11:22 pm
David, I see that the subject upsets to you. We are all sinners, but that’s why God offers us salvation thru Jesus and salvation is voluntary. No matter what everybody say, we all need to live according to God’s purpose for his Glory and his Glory only.
May 5th, 2010 at 11:23 pm
In the last days sin will be rampant and just plain in your face. Does the Lutheran faith not own a King James Version of the BIBLE?? Turns my stomach.
May 5th, 2010 at 11:25 pm
The bottom line is that you either accept the Word of God which is the blueprint for us humans to strive for a Holy and Separated life away from the evil desires of this world or you believe it is in error if it does not suit the situation that an individual is in. With the open practice of a sinful lifestyle, these so-called men of god are proclaiming that Almighty God who created us with the institution of marriage between a man and woman ordains that lifestyle. That is diabolically opposed to what God wants for men and woman. No matter what we think, God’s Word (the Bible) is inerrant and the results in this mixed -up evil world seen so common today illustrate broken lives who choose to go their own way and not follow the blueprint to peace and joy.
May 5th, 2010 at 11:32 pm
Agrees with Mr. Silva. As if any of your own sins are better than any one else’s.
May 5th, 2010 at 11:46 pm
David Silva, please enlighten us with your Theological wisdom!
May 5th, 2010 at 11:52 pm
Once again, the stupidity of people thinking there smarter and wiser than Almighty God by trying to overturn and redefine His teachings on marriage between one man and one woman. It’s perversion, abnormal, and totally unnatural in short, it’s a no brainer. Satan has you blinded and he’s laughing all the way.
May 6th, 2010 at 12:24 am
Lord, please save me from your followers.
May 6th, 2010 at 12:25 am
To David and Venus,
All of us have sinned and have fallen short of the standards of Almighty God the creator of us all. We choose to sin and go our way and not God’s way. We are all judged for the sins in our lives, whether big sins or little sins. There is no difference in the degree with God only the fact that all sin is repugnant in the sight of God, Romans 3:23 and 24. BUT, God provided a way for us to connect with HIM by accepting HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, JESUS CHRIST. Jesus said himself in John 14:6, I am the Way, The Truth and the Life and NO ONE comes to the Father but by HIM (JESUS). His grace (unmerited favor) can take all those sins away as if you never sinned. But, you have to turn from that sin whatever it is and trust God’s leadership to never do it again. I encourage anyone to turn to Scripture and TRUST God with the results. Otherwise, there are going to be alot of folks in HELL separated from GOD because they follow false doctrine from the mouths of men and women you need to LORD JESUS themselves.
May 6th, 2010 at 12:35 am
Jesus told us to love one another. He did NOT give any exceptions!
May 6th, 2010 at 12:46 am
The devil’s work is progressing quite nicely in the Lutheran church. Homosexuals are perverse, and the homosexual act itself is a sin agaist God. Let us stop this poilical correctness insanity and bar all who are of this perverse pursuasion from being in the clergy.
May 6th, 2010 at 12:47 am
dont for get to kill your children when they are bad or show you disrespect, that is in the book of Leviticus, hope none of you eat shell fish or pork. I’m a gay man. In a long term relationship. What I do is between god and myself! God made me this way and he loves me for who I am. I am not angery at your ignorance, I love you, like jesus told me to do! maybe you should worry more about the things we should be doing rather than the things we shouldn’t. like spreading the message of christ and his love for all mankind i.e. jews,musliums, budist,fags, and hateful pepole
May 6th, 2010 at 12:59 am
How gratifying that the oldest Protestant faith should be one of the first to join 21st century science in discarding this ancient prejudice based on nothing.
I am Buddhist, and among many non-Christians, Christianity is known as the “cafeteria-religion”. The one where you pick and choose those beliefs cited in your bible that reinforce your own fears and prejudices and ignore those that don’t.
After all, now many Christians and Jews still stone their adulterers and shrimp-eaters?
Just an alternate view-point.
May 6th, 2010 at 1:03 am
If being a fag is a sin than why I’m i so happy with the man I love? Why has god given me such a blessed life. Why did god make me this way?
My partner and I were both hetro relationships and both were very unhappy. God brought us together so we could move on and do good things in the name of christ. If you pretend not to be gay or lie about it. Is that a sin?
don’t forget there a lot of gays in the world and in your own familys. You could be hurting someone you love and care for!
May 6th, 2010 at 1:10 am
homosexuality has no place in the church…whatsoever.
and that’s not to offend anyone who may practice such a lifestyle, but facts are irrefuteable.
it is a fact that marriage is defined in the good book as being between man and woman.
it is a fact that homosexuality is deemed as shameful in the good book.now they’re “modifying” things in the churches policy papers to accomodate homosexual activity, or persons that are legitimately monogomus in their homosexual relationship?
pictur that, the pastor and the deacon are married holding services as married gay men.
kissing in the confession.
it’s just not good.
there’s a reason why homosexual activity is flat out illegal in prison, we can’t just have everybody able to f*ck everybody,
it may be a good thing for population control but there still needs to be a limit.
where are the radical muslims when you need em?…lol
May 6th, 2010 at 1:13 am
to thad, God never made you that way it is a lifestyle YOU have chosen. What you do is your business but don’t flaunt it in my face and expect me to say its ok when its not…as far as the
book of leviticus that is old testament law…we are no longer under that law we have been redemed by the blood of Jesus
not by the blood of and animal as in the old testament…
May 6th, 2010 at 1:19 am
@ THAD
God sent that man who you call a partner to be just that, a partner, not a MATE.
reason being…YOU CANNOT MATE!!!
nor procreate, that man was sent to you as a “FRIEND” a best friend maybe, but just a friend nontheless…not to be laid with, that is why the OPPOSITE sex exist
GOD did not make you gay, regardless of science.
be happy, but do not chicken out, and go find the one woman that was created for YOU.
she’s out the, yes “SHE” is out there for you.
you two “GUYS” can still be happy “FRIENDS” and when you find yours, you can help him find “HIS” or vice versa
May 6th, 2010 at 1:22 am
if somebody cannot control their sexuality, they should not be preaching anything. who cares if your gay or not, keep it to yourself, that is between you and God, but because sex is always one’s weakness and contribution to all corruptions, it needs to be delicately handled. thats like saying a pimp is also a priest, Nuts!
May 6th, 2010 at 1:30 am
God didnt make you gay. You have allowed the devil to entice you because of your own sexual desires Thad. God help us all and hope for a speedy return of Jesus
May 6th, 2010 at 1:37 am
look Thad, everybody has evil thoughts, but if you sit on it, you will find yourself acting on it, and that makes you a sinner…..lacking the line of connection with God, so what kind of a preacher would you be, if
God don’t talk to you? to not be a sinner, is to reject evil thoughts, and replace with truth and knowledge, and prayer, this allows your way of thinking to change, and your actions become productive, even to others. you see, a self seeker is a greedy man, who devours everything he sees, and only for himself, so what benefit to others would he be? nothing, but a taker, making others poor in the process and corrupt.
May 6th, 2010 at 1:50 am
I don’t think it’s a question of acting in love. We know we’re supposed to love everyone, it’s the sin that we don’t approve of not the person. If the pastor was a known liar or known gambler or whoremonger (women), that would be just as wrong. However, we wouldn’t hate them just because they were sinning but we wouldn’t approve of them holding that position either.
May 6th, 2010 at 1:54 am
Thad,
Your happiness is only based upon the circumstances that you are presently in. But you will never experience true peace or joy without the love of Christ ruling your heart. Yes, a comment was made that God loves you as he loves all mankind (John 3:16), but he is also the supreme judge and I certainly do not want to risk my eternal destination after taking my last breath based on what I want and not on what my creator desires for me. It was also commented that we should maintain control over our sexuality and that goes for heterosexuals as well. And to the comment from Gary about Christianity being a “cafeteria religion”, that is truly Satan convincing you that real truth lies within yourself and not in God. My so-called religion is not a religion at all, but a personal relationship with someone (Jesus) who resides in my heart and directs my life, who disciplines me when I get out of line and loves me through the good and bad times. Religion is practicing a set of rules and of course the Bible is God’s love story to all mankind. If you will just take the time and read its pages, your life can change as well.
May 6th, 2010 at 2:07 am
All interesting comments, however the truth is what makes us free. God loves all of his creation, but man is in His own image and He knows each of us individually, but He hates every one of our sins. God is unable to lie, contradict or defile His word. Homosexuality is directly against the order of God, so to say that he made man/woman gay is completely untrue. We all make choices and those people choose to be gay, just like murderers choose to kill.
May 6th, 2010 at 2:11 am
Be ye HOLY as I AM HOLY;
May 6th, 2010 at 2:16 am
Here it is God loves us all. God hates sin. Therefore God hates the sin in all of us. I am so amazed when people talk about God and want to place God in a small box only as big as their opinion. God hates all sin includining the hypocrisy noted in your comments. God used sinners in days of old and He uses sinners now. We are his creation and we were and are the ones he chose and chooses to use. He chose Moses a murderer, who lead God’s people out of Egypt,He chose David an assasin, a man after God’s own heart. He chose Paul one who killed christians to transform the saints of old, who still to this day, people question his sexuality based on his own words which are recorded. I’m just sayin that God can use a donkey, a rock, a tree, but most often he uses people, and all of us are full of sin, including the sin where we think that somebody else’s sin in worse than ours, but in most cases we feel that way in an effort to be okay with ourselves. God is GOD, because He is the only one capable of being GOD. Bless somebody, encourage somebody, help somebody, it is only when we do these things that we take on the image of Christ and we truly become the children of GOD. God gets no glory out of us criticizing or belittling our brothers and sisters no matter what the sin is. Grow up and Grow in Christ and you may discover that God is full of grace and mercy. What parent doesnt love their child because they have done something wrong. What parent doesnt still see potential for good in that disobedient child. Only a poor parent and GOD is not a poor parent, He is the greatest parent there is. If we give good things to our children and we are full of sin how much more will GOD do and give good things to us inspite of us! Thanks be to GOD for His infinite wisdom and not trusting the destiny of our brothers and sister to us. AMEN AMEN
May 6th, 2010 at 2:41 am
It is a myth that one can’t serve God and be in a loving, committed same sex relationship. I am very happy to see these two pastors reinstated.
May 6th, 2010 at 2:47 am
You “christians” make me sick. I am a born-again believer, since childhood, married straight man with children and I am apalled at how you judge people who are gay. It’s people like you all who have the corner on truth, know that you’re interpretation of scripture is 100% accurate and infallable, and are more hypocritical than any “non-christians” I know. The love of Christ extends to all, regardless of who they are, and the church is for all, regardless of who they are. While God is love and unity, you espouse hate and division. I only wish that one day “christians” would see that when they hate they judge and play god. Love and accept rather than hate and tear down, you are not god, even if you think you are!
May 6th, 2010 at 2:54 am
oh ok Tracy, so watching people suffer is Gods way of saying he loves us, right! as a matter of fact, all these earthquakes and natural disasters are specially targeted to our leaders leading us to corruption, and yes the Bible talks that leaders are responsible for the followers actions and horrible sins that hurt one another. your gonna tell me God loves a God hater, who would hurt or molest a little child, yeah theres hope that the guy changes, but lets be responsible and not put him on a high horse and let him yap his mouth about crap. ok you fool, are you also gonna tell me there is no hell, what are you a johova witness? are you telling me you get your info directly from God, to confirm you did not mis interpret anything, you make me sick! yeah, sit there and defend peoples sick sins, refusing to stand up for the weak, like defenseless little children, who are too afraid to even talk.
May 6th, 2010 at 3:03 am
People, People…Here it is we as believers in Jesus Christ are here condeming one another..and sending each other to HELL….when the word says to us clearly do not judge…..it also says workout your own salvation with fear and trembling…..Meaning that you are responsible for YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD FOR YOU ALONE WILL STAND BEFORE HIM AND GIVE ACCOUNT FOR YOUR LIFE….The word does tell us to love one another…..to whom much is given much is required….WE HAVE BEEN GIVEN MUCH GRACE…..so in return we need to give GRACE
May 6th, 2010 at 3:15 am
Amen Katherine. I’ve never seen so much anger and hatred as I’ve seen in the writings of followers of Christ, who is defined as “LOVE”. As Pascal rightly said, people never hate as strongly as they do as when they do it from religious conviction. What a real shame that is…..
May 6th, 2010 at 3:21 am
The thing is God says in the bible that “A liar is just as much of a sinner as a homosexual”, every single person on here has commited sins and continues to on a daily basis. Just because you ask forgiveness doesnt mean it was ok for you to comit the sin. Its funny how its ok for a straight man to lust after many different women (which happens everyday, sit in a public place and watch the men and even women attract their attention to body parts of the opposite sex) but its not okay for 2 men or 2 women who truely care and love eachother to be together. So is it okay for a man or woman to cheat on their spouse and then go to church sunday and ask forgiveness? I mean after all they are cheating with the opposite sex which is ok in the bible. I believe in God and I feel I have a good relationship with him and I feel he will judge me fairly in my time, but this is why I dont go to church anymore… church is full of hipocritical people who shun other peoples lifestyles to make thier selves feel better like they are doing something good by speaking out against other sinners. I also realize the fact that the bible was written 100’s of years ago in a differnt life and different time, I think if God was to re write the bible now in our modern time their would be many changes because the way of life is not the same. Point blank- God is the only judge… he will judge everybody in their time but dont feel that just because you lashed out against homosexuals for their acts of sin that its gonna save you from yours. Love everybody just like God says and leave the judging up to him.
May 6th, 2010 at 3:26 am
Agrees whole heartedly with Kathrine. The minute any one of you gains the talent to walk on water sin free then you’ll have the right to judge someone else’s walk with God. Whatever sexual orientation THAT person has is between THAT person and God. Love is unconditional so if you can’t give it freely unless a person conforms to the lifestyle you are more comfortable with maybe it’s YOUR relationship with God that needs to be checked.
I seem to recall divorce not being a part of God’s original doctrine. Pre-marital sex last I checked is a sin yet I don’t see people up in arms shaking their little judgmental fingers at people for that the way they judge homosexuals. Your hypocrisy would be funny if it weren’t so pathetic.
May 6th, 2010 at 3:30 am
Dawn seek Christ and he will help you through your anger, I never said that God supports sin, what I said is that we have no right to judge according to scripture. JUdge not lest ye be judged straight from the mouth mouth of Christ! Yes there is a hell just like there is a heaven but we have no right to put anybody there only God holds the key. Jesus died for us all wheter we believe it or not and wheteher you like it or not the devil still has time to repent. Stop being so angry and seek Christ. Help who you can help and grow as a person. God wnats us to bless and encourage each other. For those of us who love one another like the BIBLE instructs us to do, please use the strongest weapon we have been given by our Lord. Jesus said that we should always pray and faint not. Prayer changes people! People don’t change people. If you want to see true change STOP criticizing and belittling people and PRAY for people. Dawn I don’t know you just as you don’t know me but I will pray for you that God will teach you how to be angry. The Bible says Be angry but do not sin, and you in just a moment and from a comment have sinned against me. This is why God has not entrusted our destiny to our brothers and sisters. We can not be trusted. Furthermore if God called them and ordained them into the pastorate maybe just maybe He can see something in them that we can’t see. He is EL ROI the eyes of the Lord are in every place. He is also Jehovah Rapha the Healer and He can heal you where you hurt. I’m praying for you Dawn
May 6th, 2010 at 3:33 am
David you are right
May 6th, 2010 at 3:33 am
My Dear Father….that your people will truly know your Grace….and Mercy ….In the story of Mary Magdalene when Jesus asked Mary where are your accuser? He then said to her go and sin no more….he did not say to her you are a whore and you are going to Hell for the life you are leading….now go and make sure you go to church every week and read your bible everyday and make sure you tell at least 20 people a day about Me….and make sure you condem people to Hell…because you now Have ALL THE ANSWERS…..
May 6th, 2010 at 3:39 am
Kathrine David Venus James and Jasmine, its good to know that some people practice love tolerance and forgiveness as Jesus did, may God bless you all. Be encouraged you will always be challenged when you stand for Love and Forgiveness.
May 6th, 2010 at 3:49 am
Thad, don’t worry about what people say on here. Live your life. God loves all of us! You have a gay friend in Texas!
May 6th, 2010 at 3:58 am
I call myself a BELIEVER in exile….I have been where they are….I now give all the power to God and the Holy Spirit to do the work of the Father….cause it was the Holy Spirit that drew me to the Father….LET THE HOLY SPIRIT DO HIS JOB AND GET OUT OF THE WAY AND NO YOU ARE NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT….
May 6th, 2010 at 4:02 am
I dont think anyone on here is trying to pass judgement on anyone and although it is true we need to love each other. its also our duty as children of God to expose the lies of the devil. Its not ok to continue in homosexuality because that is sin.
May 6th, 2010 at 4:14 am
We are commanded to LOVE not condem…it is not our job as believer to expose anything….LOVE!!! God sent the Holy Spirit to expose the lies of the devil…and frankly I think that today “christians” are so busy looking for the devil in everything…..and are living in fear of the devil that they have become ineffective….Greater is He that is within us than he that is in the world…..God has not given us a spirit of fear BUT of POWER, LOVE and a SOUND MIND.
May 6th, 2010 at 4:24 am
the bible was written by men guided by the spirit of God. All through the bible God exposes sin through men and women. If you have a spirit telling you it is ok to continue in homosexuality. It is not the Holy Spirit. To expose the truth is love
May 6th, 2010 at 4:43 am
thank you Mark! if a gay man said, i was gay, but now im not, i understand the advocacy of the devil, and how he tricks us to lie to each other, and take from and pound one another…… then i would say, that man has been threw hell and back, and could teach us a thing or two, so yes, i would like to hear him speak. but i can’t believe that a sinner would gain so many supporters. you know, i love gay people, they are nice and funny, and make me giggle when they want to sleep with me, but…that’s it…and if they work in public great, but a speaker promoting sex is just crazy! infidelity and adultery, cause an extreme amount of pain and suffering too, much destruction, victims would be lucky if they ever met Jesus after so much trauma, that is the equation of sin, it = destruction, hatred and deaths.
anybody who defends sinners, is sinning right then, because they are putting big sinners to promoting more sin. it’s like saddam hussein, great power leads to great destruction, so don’t put bad people in power. we as voters have a choice, but once we make our choice, it is hard to get that person off, because they pay for big time lawyers, but justice for victims doesn’t reach to even 3%.
May 6th, 2010 at 4:55 am
and yes venus, i judge people like tiger woods… people say i am throwing stones….. well great then, i guess woman and men who divorce their cheating spouses are just so damn evil aren’t they? for not wanting to put up with their crap no more. i guess mother nature is mistaken huh, when she created STD’s, ey! then people despise me when i say, “hey, your child suffers from your nasty sins, now they got a weird disease” oh, no, don’t talk like that, oops! (don’t judge lest ye be judged) your joking right!
May 6th, 2010 at 5:02 am
Dawn, it seems that you are confusing homosexuality with preditors…..you seem to be speaking from a place of much pain..that may be being interpreted as anger…Lord bless you and bring you peace…for in those areas of pain that are unresolved…the Holy Spirit exposes those areas to us for healing
May 6th, 2010 at 5:02 am
Hey, even nature itself teaches us that male mate with female. A cow, dog or ram - each finds his female; likewise with us.
But believers, let’s not castigate - never helps. Everything that needed to be said “God and Bible-wise” has been said. The prayer of a righteous man avails much - so pray instead.
David et al - the believers are not hateful people, just zealous and want the best for us all, and believe me sometimes we do more damage than good.
May 6th, 2010 at 5:08 am
katrina, don’t send me your junk! you don’t know what you are talking about! a homosexual is not different then a child predator, or adulterer, or a hooker or whatever else, but…..they are the big cause of kids suffering, and adults suffering etc. etc. etc. i don’t suffer, i have everything i want and more, i am spoiled by GOD himself…. but my heart hurts for others who suffer as we speak, even for sinners who suffer, that is why i will never except sin, not for you, not for me, or anybody else, period. is that ok with you? sin is very very bad, not just cause God hates it, but also because it hurts alot of people. and if you like to watch people suffer for your entertainment purposes, then you are a sick puppy!
May 6th, 2010 at 5:27 am
you see, everybody has good intentions…..they do, really, it’s just, if you practice sin then you are chained to the devil, and when you are alone with somebody, you will hurt them, whether it’s getting them to have sex with you, or lying about somebody, or actually hurt them physically, and just because nobody found out, doesn’t mean you are good, it means you are bad, and are destroying somebodies life, and ofcourse will have to pay for it even if you keep it with you for life. a homosexual is a sinner and naturally will sin affecting others, with no self control. a preacher needs to be fully disected, and announced free of sin, so he can hold his position uplifting and good for his listeners. otherwise, we are better without priests, or preachers.
May 6th, 2010 at 5:54 am
Dawn, maybe you miss understood me…I do not like to see people suffer….why are you so angry? God hates the sin but loves the sinner….it does not matter what the sin is there are no small sins and big sins…sins is sin…and that is why God gave us free will…so we can choose life or death…..suffering will always be with us BUT… God has provided a way to receive healing…..my hope for you is that you will seek healing for the emotional pain your in….
May 6th, 2010 at 6:06 am
Mark and Dawn…..YE WHO ARE WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE! FREEWILL! I am not saying that I agree with homosexuality I am saying Let God be the judge…and let the sinner take responsibility for whatever he chooses. he/she will have to give an account of his/her life when they stand before God….Have we forgotten from whence we came? GRACE GRACE and more GRACE
May 6th, 2010 at 6:09 am
Dawn, as a person who was molested from the age of 4 and raped at the age of 15…you are screaming!!! sounds as if you really identify with abuse what is that about?
May 6th, 2010 at 6:16 am
everyone of us are sinners. Jesus said repent and turn from your sins. the devil always tries to twist the truth. I pray that all homosexuals repent and turn from their ways. it is still sin no matter what way you want to sugar coat it.
May 6th, 2010 at 6:47 am
Mark it is not our job a believer to ok or condem someones lifestyle…it is our job to LOVE how much of the truth is twisted by christians who interpret the word according to their own paradiem….and what they know to be truth….You give the devil alot of credit and not the believer in taking responsibility for the choices they make. I hope that we all repent !!!! and deal with our own sin….No Sugar coating!!!!
May 6th, 2010 at 6:54 am
Homosexuality is an illicit lust forbidden by God. He said to His people Israel, “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination” (Leviticus 18:22). “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them” (Leviticus 20:13). In these passages homosexuality is condemned as a prime example of sin, a sexual perversion. The Christian can neither alter God’s viewpoint nor depart from it.
May 6th, 2010 at 6:57 am
Expose the lies of the devil? Have you ever talked to a Christian who went through “reparative therapy” to try to not be homosexual? As a psychologist I have, and it is an ineffective and dangerous “treatment”. It basically does what you are saying, i.e. exposes people to Biblical “truth” (or their interpretation of it) and tries to get them to be heterosexual. Guess what? It doesn’t work, and don’t believe the “statistics” they claim because they are lies. MANY people who’ve been through this end of becoming depressed, dejected, and overwhelmed with guilt when the homosexual feelings (inevitably) return and some have even committed suicide as a result of feeling abandoned by God. Having a nephew who is gay (and whose father is a committed christian pastor), I know that people are born this way and that it’s inherent in the core of who they are as being heterosexual is to me. Leviticus talks about sin, Christ showed a better and higher law, that being the law of love for all, no matter who they are, lepers, prostitutes, or the demon possessed. Homosexuals are not sinners and are no different than me. I believe this because I follow the ultimate example of love, Christ Himself.
May 6th, 2010 at 7:01 am
I dont condemn anyones livestyle God does. I dont want them to go anyone to the lake of fire because they are ignorant about their sins. the choices people make in this life determine where they go in the end. so it is our duty as children of God to reveal truth. God doesnt want anyone to parish
May 6th, 2010 at 7:05 am
Whoa! Wait a minute! Being homosexual sends you to hell? Are you really saying that someone can’t be a homosexual AND a Christian? I thought that grace through faith in the work of Christ’s atonement saves us? Can a person believe this AND be homosexual or do you believe, as most christians do, that homosexuality somehow bans one from heaven? Better check your theology and then checks Jesus’ because they sound vastly different!
May 6th, 2010 at 7:07 am
Mark…Thank God for Jesus!!!!! Jesus died knowing that we would continue in our sin still laid down His life for us…..You are speaking out of the old testiment…..Grace came to us with Jesus….do you still want to make blood sacrifices for your sins?
May 6th, 2010 at 7:08 am
Jesus said repent and turn from your sins. David if you are trying to say that homosexuality is not a sin. You are the devils advocate.
May 6th, 2010 at 7:08 am
David AMEN AMEN and AMEN!
May 6th, 2010 at 7:13 am
If we start judging each other on ALL the sins identified, enumerated, classified, grouped, and listed in the Bible, then ALL of us are in trouble with God. “For ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” (Rom 3:23) Let’s not single out homosexuality (and other sexual sins) as THE only horrible sin in the history of mankind. How about envy, jealousy, pride, selfishness, self-centeredness, and so forth? Instead, LOVE thy neighbor as yourself. This includes GAY pastors and church leaders. LOVE them; don’t judge them.
May 6th, 2010 at 7:15 am
Kathrine
Jesus didnt come to abolish the law but to forefill it
May 6th, 2010 at 7:15 am
Mark, Do you ever sin? or are you one of those christian who excuses your failure with “oh well I am just human”? giving yourself permission to sin and have forgiveness yet being able to condem other for theirs What are you hiding?
May 6th, 2010 at 7:21 am
new testament the book of Romans
21: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22: Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23: And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24: Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26: For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
May 6th, 2010 at 7:22 am
Mark I do not live under the law cause your right He came to fulfill the law: meaning that He came and became the law…the law of Grace..How about this does it really matter what we think about homosexuallity? does knowing there are homosexuals in the world change my reality?….I say…Workout your own Salvation….and let God be God
May 6th, 2010 at 7:24 am
John 3:17 For God sent not His Son to condem the world….BUT, that the world thru HIM might be saved…yea and Amen
May 6th, 2010 at 7:27 am
Mark go with God and may He continue to work in your life as you continue to grow in truth and wisdom that is my prayer for you….God Bless come let us reason together….
May 6th, 2010 at 7:28 am
I am a man of God that is a sinner. I alreay told you that. I am simply stateing what the Bible says about homosexuality.
May 6th, 2010 at 7:33 am
Mark it is too bad that you only talk about condemnation and hardly ever talk about the Grace of God…..I know what the bible says….but, remember when Jesus came He said the law says….but I say…
May 6th, 2010 at 7:34 am
Godspeed brothers an sisters in Christ and may God open everyones hearts and minds to be able to see the truth in His word.
May 6th, 2010 at 7:43 am
Matt. 5:16 In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven. 17″Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
where does jesus say the law says. but I say……..
that is completely untrue kathrine
May 6th, 2010 at 8:17 am
Mark is right katherine, and until you stomp on sin, as Jesus said, you mouth speaks alot about Christ, but your heart is far from him. why would you call yourself a believer if you don’t honor his death as a way of repentance. go and sin no more. but if you sin, be sure to tell he whom you troubled, and be forgiven by your victim, then bring your offerings to God. do you katherine and David go and ask for forgiveness to your victim, or you just forgive people who did not affect you personally?
Jesus died not so we can accept sin, otherwise from the moment he resurrected we would all be happy and free of pain, and that was 2010 years ago. we still see sin, prosecution, hatred, etc. so until everyone decides to sin no more, then the book is SEALED, and we will be happy. if i am evil towards you, by stealing something or someone of yours with powers of the devil by seducing, then it is my responsibility to withdraw from your presence and make myself good by learning what is sin. i am not gay, but that don’t mean i don’t think my life would be easier with another woman, i am sure she would be more understanding,and specially because man and woman satisfy both the same, so yeah sexuality is a choice.
May 6th, 2010 at 8:34 am
katherien, really? cast the first stone, really? did Jesus not say a real stone, or weapon of some sort, come on! i don’t run around telling a homosexual not to be gay, as long as the two adults consent to their lust for each other without betraying another, who cares? be who you want to be, but if i have to forbid myself from jumping from person to person, because it is what the Bible tells me so, or rejecting an offer from another woman, because i know it offends my creator and it is an obvious trick of the devil, then thats an opinion i will stand by. anyways, the devil temps us so he can claim our lives, and so, he tortures us on earth and afterlife! why would i want anybody to bear that.
May 6th, 2010 at 8:56 am
and just to answer your question, what my yelling, (which im not) is all about, no i was never molested, date rapped yeah, but things like that happen when there is no supervision with a minor left with a young adult, oh well. that only teaches me that when people choose to sin no more, i will be like a security guard to my kids until they finish college, oh well!
May 6th, 2010 at 9:30 am
Dawn I am praying for you and Mark and will continue. I pray that you have a real encounter with GOD. So that you can experience His Grace and Mercy.
May 6th, 2010 at 9:40 am
grace comes by faith and faith comes by hearing the word of God. and if you practice homosexuality and you truly had faith then you would stand on the power of Gods grace. And know that God gives you strenght to be able to turn from your wicked ways. I’ll be praying for you too Traci that you understand the whole word of God. And that he will give you strenght and wisdom
May 6th, 2010 at 9:43 am
Dear Dawn, I am sorry for your pain..I do not like to be called an unbeliever just because I don’t believe like you do. There is what continues to tear the body of Christ apart. We are all on the same path only some are alittle behind and other are ahead….I don’t claim to know everything but I do know what God tells me is just for me…..He deals with each one of us differently….we are individuals….and so I have to believe that whatever it is that I need it is my job to continue to grow….
May 6th, 2010 at 9:45 am
Rom. 1:16 I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 17For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.” 18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them
May 6th, 2010 at 9:50 am
Traci, I would not judge Mark and Dawn as not having a real encounter with God…I pray that they both continue to grow in wisdom, grace and mercy…..
May 6th, 2010 at 9:53 am
Mark, relaxs I know what the word says….what the word says to me might not be what the word says to you…..imagine that….yet we are all made in HIS likeness
May 6th, 2010 at 9:58 am
I was addicted to drugs, alcohol, fast women, pornograghy, money, anger had no patience at all….. I am a sinner who has repented and am now a child of the most high. God gives me strength to abstain from all of those things by his grace. I am not condemning anyone. But I cannot lie. homosexuality is a sin. If you beleive anything different its because thats what you choose to beleive. and you have been decieved by the devil
May 6th, 2010 at 10:02 am
I speak the truth everything I am saying can be backed up by scripture. sure anyone can claim grace but does that mean its ok to continue to knowingly go against what Jesus is really saying
May 6th, 2010 at 10:07 am
No Mark you just changed addictions!!! did you know that being over religious is an addiction? the need to control your world….before it was with drugs sex and whatever now it is by shoving the word at people….my thought is that you probably still struggle with your pass addictions…..HEAR ME !!!! I DO NOT CARE ABOUT WHAT A PERSON DOES IN THE PRIVACY OF THEIR OWN BEDROOM….NONE OF MY BUSSINESS….I have enough of my own struggles to deal with….Now Go with God AMEN
May 6th, 2010 at 10:08 am
I am not trying to attack anyone personally so forgive me if that is your perception. but for you are are saying that its not a sin or its ok to practice homosexuality and be a Christian. Show in me scripture where it says its not a sin and that ok to practice homosexuality and if you cant . then you really dont know the truth and your speaking is in vain.
May 6th, 2010 at 10:12 am
Mark I am so sorry I did not know that you were a Kings Kid….I am from the era of servanthood…..the time when the church believed we were all just servant…..sometimes I think that Kings Kids have such a sense of entitlement…where the servants always feel like worms……my hunch is that neither position is good
May 6th, 2010 at 10:13 am
katherine maybe you should make God your addiction too. how can a person have to much God. I am addicted to God and his truth and love. how is that wrong?
May 6th, 2010 at 10:15 am
Mark, did you not read what I said? I said religion can be an addiction…not God…
May 6th, 2010 at 10:18 am
kathrine your personal attacks just show who you really are and what you really stand for. I truly am a servant and child of the most high. I stand on truth and scripture. thats what a true Christian does. I can see that you dont want truth. God bless all!!!!
May 6th, 2010 at 10:23 am
Mark I am truly sorry if you took anything I said as a Personal attack….I think that we stand for truth…but truth is different for each one of us….and just because I don’t believe the same as you does not mean that I don’t want to hear truth…..and there it is why is it that we think we are the only ones with truth?
May 6th, 2010 at 10:31 am
Mark holds strong his position, and he has been threw hell and back, and stands and rejects the acts of sin, and thats a miracle. i too choose not to sin, but am quick to forgive an attacker against me, as long as they are truly sorry, that makes me a follower of Christ. but when you Katherine and Tracy come before the presence of God you will then realize what it means to have to take responsibility for participating in the corruptions and destruction of innocent people by electing those with great sin in power, hopefully not, but that you will understand what Mark and I tryed to warn you against. yes i have seen the devil face to face, also Jesus face to face, and also God not once but twice face to face. and i can assure you, he is not jumping with lots of joy seeing the evil acts people do to each other and so proudly defend. if i were lying he would strike me dead right now, so no, i am not lying or making it up. and no i don’t sit around reading the Bible all day, or pray all day, i am just a sorry person for all the rest who think know what God likes, but have been clearly deceived by the devil. yes the devil laughs at you, because you defend him with great pride.
May 6th, 2010 at 10:47 am
people who sin, manipulate the Word of God, and so they deceive people like you Katherine, you think your prayers reach God, little do you know, your prayers would only be attempts to curse me, because you don’t put a muzzle on your mouth, and are quick to speak what you have no understanding of, instead, it is i who should pray for you…..because your decisions affect my childrens future. i recommend you simply pray for yourself, and listen to the words you speak as you pray, i’m sure you will be apaulled at yourself, and work to change for it, then hopefully your eyes open, continue to pray because you will be shocked at what you see, and you will need Gods strength to bear it.
May 6th, 2010 at 10:50 am
IT DOESNT MATTER ABOUT ALL THE OPINIONS OR ANYTHING.GOD IS GOD AND HE ALWAYS WILL BE GOD THAT GO FOR ANY DEVILS THAT TRY AND CHANGE ANYTHING THAT THE WORD SAYS.FOR THE PERSON THAT SAID GOD MADE U THAT WAY STOP LYIN ON GOD HE MADE ADAM AND EVE NOT ADAM AND STEVE MY GOD IS AN INTELLIGENT GOD STOP LETTIN THE DEVIL USE U.WHAT U HAVE DONE IS SINNED AGAINST GOD AND TO REIGN IN HIS KINGDOM U CANNOT REMAIN THAT WAY U ARE GONNA HAVE TO HAVE FAVOR WITH GOD THAT HE DELIVER U HE IS THE ONLY THAT CAN.STOP USING THE WORD OF GOD TO COVER UP UR SINNFUL NATURE.OH YEAH THE SAINTS CAN JUDGE THE WORLD.WHEN U FIND URSELF GUILTY OF WHAT GOD TEACHES US NOT TO DO U CAN COME OUT ON JESUS BUT ITS U THAT CONTINUES TO REMAIN THE SAME.HAVE U READ THE STORY ABOUT SODOM AND GOMARRAH.HOW CAN U PREACH THEWORD OF GOD AND SKIP THIS MESSAGE.THE DEVIL IS A POWER ALL THAT GOD ALLOWS HIM TO HAVE.
May 6th, 2010 at 10:52 am
THE FIRST THING U NEED TO DO IS ACKNOWELEDGE THAT URE A SINNER AND ASKING GOD FOR A SPIRIT OF CHANGE .JESUS IS COMIN BACK THE SUN IS ALMOST UP IF U KNOW LIKE I KNOW U HAD BETTER LEAVE THOSE SPIRITS ALONE.
May 6th, 2010 at 11:02 am
FOR THE PERSON THAT SAID THTA WE COULD BE OFFENDING A FAMILY MEMBER THEN SO BE IT.I HAVE A SON WHO IS 18YRS WHO WAS CAUGHT UP IN THOSE KINDS OF DEMONS I TOLD HIM IF HE IS LIKE THAT AND WANT TO BE LIKE THAT HE NEEDS TO QUIT PRETENDING PACK HIS BAGS AND LEAVE THE CHURCH LIGHT AND DARKNESS DONT MIX. THOSE PRIEST ARE PREACHERS ARE NOT MEN OF GOD YEAG MEN OF THE DARK. SATAN HAVE CHURCHES TOO AND PEOPLE. SATAN HAS NEVER TRICKED ANYBODY USING HIS NAME ALWAYS IN THE NAME OF THE LORD THATS HOW HE FOOL PEOPLE.IF ANYONE FIND THEMSELVES CAUGHT UP WITH THESE TYPE OF DEMONS THEY HAD BETTER TRY AND FIND FAVOE WITH GOD AND RUN FOR THERE LIVES.THE DEVIL DONT HAVE REPECT OF PERSON HE IS SEEKING TO DESTROY ANY ONE HE PLEASES ONE THING ABOUT THE DEVIL HES ON HIS JOB.WE HAD BETTER GET ON OUORS AND SEEK GOD BECAUSE NOONE IS EXEMPT THOSE SAME DEMONS CAN GET IN ME ITS JUST BY THE GRACE OF GOD.AND GOD IS NOT A PLAY PLAY GOD HEA A REAL GOR AND HE CAN AND WILL TURN U OVER TO A REPROBATED MIND.
May 6th, 2010 at 11:03 am
The Bible says that truth is very important to God. God wants you to love truth and peace (Zechariah 8:19). Truth goes hand in hand with “wisdom, discipline and understanding” (Proverbs 23:23). God commands people to “Speak the truth to each other, and render true and sound judgment in your courts” (Zechariah 8:16). The Bible says that the way to choose truth is to set your heart on God’s laws (Psalm 119:30). We must follow God’s laws to find truth.
there is only one truth. Seek it out vigilantly
May 6th, 2010 at 11:16 am
The Bible says that truth offers people many benefits. Truth can protect you (Psalm 40:11). Truth can guide and lead you to God (Psalm 43:3). Truth can guide and teach you, bringing you to hope in God (Psalm 25:5). Truth has the power to set you free from the bondage of sin (John 8:31). The Bible even says that God is near to those who call on Him in truth (Psalm 145:18).
May 6th, 2010 at 11:16 am
David on #62: Jesus said, if you pray for somebody, never stop praying for them. the reason he said that, is that when you stopped praying for them, the chain will pull them 7 times stronger.
May 6th, 2010 at 11:17 am
Failing to tell the truth can lead people astray. The Bible says that some people were lead astray from God as a result of others distorting the truth (Acts 20:30). Man’s wickedness can suppress the truth and result in incurring the wrath of God (Romans 1:18-19). The Bible says in Romans 2:8 that “… for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.”
May 6th, 2010 at 11:29 am
and Katherine and Tracy, if i got loud and ugly to you, it is because it drives me nuts when somebody goes around parading love and kindness, as if we all prance around holding hands saying kind words to each other….the reality is we don’t, right now you need to make yourself strong and stop defending sin, because when somebody sins against you or a loved one, you will not be talking much about love then. it’s just reality!
May 6th, 2010 at 11:39 am
God bless Dawn the devil always flees from truth and scripture
May 6th, 2010 at 11:43 am
GOD IS TRUTH THE BIBLE ALSO SAYS BEFORE IT WAS A WRITTEN WORD IT WAS A SPOKEN WORD.IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD THEWORD WAS GOD AND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD.IN LATTER TIMES I WILL WRITE IT ON THE TABLE OF YOUR HEART.RECKON WHY HE SAID THAT?HUM.
May 6th, 2010 at 11:52 am
oh thank you Mark! you are just so funny… but that makes you a warrior of God… God Bless you Too!
May 6th, 2010 at 12:11 pm
one more thing Mark, thank you for the ability to show scripture as quickly as you do.
May 6th, 2010 at 4:42 pm
where did they go? i swear they don’t even say goodby! LOL!
May 6th, 2010 at 7:45 pm
All hail Dawn the water walker. *rolls eyes*
I thank God people like you have no control in how I choose to walk my path. God and God ALONE is who I answer to for He loves me unconditionally even when I stumble trying to please Him. God makes no mistakes so I suppose even you serve a purpose.
I pray you are open to receive all the unconditional love that comes your way even though your heart has hardened and are unable to give it.
Have a blessed life.
May 6th, 2010 at 8:18 pm
To read these comments is truly very disturbing to me and so sad. This is exactly why the church and Christians are not listened to anymore and have become completely irrelevent to a lost (and searching) society. No it’s not because they don’t “have ears to hear” or that “they are deceived by the devil” but it is because the vast majority of Christians preach and condone judgment, hatred, and non-acceptance, counter to Christ Himself. If you are constantly putting people down you have no time to help them up. I am amazed and disturbed that, as a Christian, I am being called the “devils advocate”, how dare you judge my or anyone’s spirituality? How dare you play god! Christ was most bothered by the hyprocrites of his time and nothing drives me more crazy. Mark and Dawn I hope that someday the LOVE of Christ fills your hearts and removes the anger, judgment and hatred that spews out of you toward others, even to other believers. Katherine, I wish I could meet you for we’d have some good talks I’m sure. As for me and my house? I will SERVE the Lord and be about His business and that is not the business of condemnation but of RECONCILIATION, of reconciling the world back to Christ and relationship with Him and with each other, for only in that will we truly have peace, joy and love. And remember, the greatest of these is LOVE!
May 7th, 2010 at 1:40 am
David
you have done the same thing the devil does. You take something that is sin and say its not. homosexuality is a sin the bible says that people like you will come along and teach false doctriine and lead people astray. Jesus did come to teach us to love one another but he also came rebukeing sin. He warned of people like you. You need to read the bible again and pray that you understand the truth in it. And not what you want to twist the truth to be. your lies lead the christians astray. can you show me where in the bible it says homosexuality is not a sin? no you cant!!! so the lies that you spew out of your mouth. Makes you a mouth piece for the devil.
May 7th, 2010 at 1:52 am
Wow, this is more disturbing then I thought. All you can do is talk about homosexuality, seems you are obsessed with it. All I can say to you Mark is that someday we all will stand before God and be accountable for what we have said and done. You stand here and self-righteously accuse true believers of being heretical and apostate and the “mouth piece for the devil”, things that no one but God has the right to do, but yet in your pride you see yourself as having the right to do this. For that reason and that reason alone, I pray that God will have mercy on you when you stand before Him. I am done with this conversation, those who have ears to hear and hearts to love, let us be the face of Christ to those He sent us to love, and that is all of humanity. Peace.
May 7th, 2010 at 1:58 am
david
you say that homosexuality is not a sin. homosexuality is the subject that were talking about. ( so no im not obsessed with it). can you back what you say with scripture??
May 7th, 2010 at 2:04 am
brothers and sisters in Christ. The bible says you shall know people by the fruits they bear. And that not everyone who professes to be a Christian. Is really a Christian
Matthew 7:15,16 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits…
May 7th, 2010 at 2:07 am
2 Peter 3:16,17 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;
May 7th, 2010 at 2:10 am
The devil can quote scripture too. I believe the false prophets in here are the two trying the hardest to convince everyone else that they are not.
Jesus take the wheel and lead me away from these two attempting to play you.
May 7th, 2010 at 2:12 am
venus
do you agree that homosexuality is a sin?
May 7th, 2010 at 2:13 am
What fruit should we know you by Mark? Last time I checked judgment, hatred, and pride were not fruit of the Spirit.
“There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus”. Gal. 3:28 We are ALL one in Christ Jesus, wouldn’t this include EVERYONE, even homosexuals? Of course it does….
May 7th, 2010 at 2:15 am
david
you havent been able to prove that homosexuality is not sin. You keep avoiding it
May 7th, 2010 at 2:20 am
david
Truth is a fruit of the spirit.
May 7th, 2010 at 2:21 am
I just answered your question Mark. Christ makes no distinctions between humans, like you do. In Christ we are not male or female, slave or free, Greek or Jew, sinner or not sinner, homosexual or heterosexual, we are ONE HUMANITY, ALL HIS CHILDREN, the SAME in Christ’s eyes, and therefore EQUALLY LOVED AS HIS CHILDREN. Yes Mark, God loves homosexuals JUST AS MUCH AS HE LOVES YOU! Thanks be to God, Christ our savior, thru the power of the Spirit!
May 7th, 2010 at 2:28 am
david
can you show me in scripture where it says homosexuality is not a sin. Jesus loves all of us that is true but we are to repent of our sins and turn from our wicked ways right? that means if you are a homosexual, drug addict, alcoholic having unwed sex ….whatever the sin maybe be. you neeed to abstain from it and follow Christ. do you agree?
May 7th, 2010 at 2:29 am
The same as lying, adultery, lust, theft and a multitude of other things we ALL do on a daily basis. That is not the issue, the issue is that God hates the SIN NOT THE SINNER.
Can you also quote the scriptures where God used sinners for His work? If you can not then you are simply using scripture to push your own agenda. If you can, then tell me how it would not be possible for God to use these priests in the same fashion?
I am more concerned with my relationship with God than personal business of the man or woman standing behind the pulpit.
We are called to spread the word not only by the words of our mouths but more importantly through our actions.
May 7th, 2010 at 2:31 am
If any one of you proclaims to be sin free or expect religious leaders to also be sin free, you have undoubtedly created your own religion that is NOT of God.
May 7th, 2010 at 2:34 am
Venus
the bible is written by sinners guided by the spirit of God. when Jesus saved the harlot from being stoned he told her to go and sin no more. As Christians we are expected by God to abstain from our sins.
May 7th, 2010 at 2:36 am
So Mark, let me ask you this. You say homosexuality is a sin and therefore not of God and they should stop being homosexual or else they are not true Christians. You are a sinner, right? Yes. Do you keep sinning? Yes. Everyday? Yes. Why don’t you stop sinning Mark? That must mean you’re not a Christian? Do you see the nonsense of such an arguement?
And no, I do not see Homosexuality as a sin and many many Christians do not either. I am convinced that they are born that way, and since we are all created by the Creator and in His image, they too are created that way in His image.
May 7th, 2010 at 2:36 am
If God expected us to all be sin free, there would be no need for forgiveness which he freely gives when we come to Him and ask.
May 7th, 2010 at 2:36 am
venus
if someone comes along saying sin isnt sin. And that its ok to sin because Jesus loves us all….. that person is a false teacher and not of God
May 7th, 2010 at 2:38 am
venus you never answered my question…do you think homosexuality is a sin???
May 7th, 2010 at 2:45 am
I answered your question.
May 7th, 2010 at 2:46 am
David
You still havent been able to show that homosexuality is not sin. I am a sinner. sometimes I lust over a pretty woman but I have to quickly look away and ask God forgiveness. But I dont acted on my evil desires. Because God gives me strength through the Holy Spirit. Its absurd for someone to think that its ok to act upon their sins. And that God is ok with that
May 7th, 2010 at 2:53 am
david and venus
God says homosexuality is an abomanation have you read that part of the bile or do you just not believe the parts of the where it speaks on homosexuality because it doesnt condone your lifestyle. You cant mold God to fit your lifestyle. lets look at the whole bile and not just the part where jesus speaks on love, grace and mercy.
May 7th, 2010 at 2:53 am
But you still engaged in the sin. I don’t care how quickly you realized your wrong and looked away…it was still wrong, you admitted the wrong and asked for forgiveness. I’m sure that was not the first nor will it be the last time you fall short of God’s glory.
And what do you know, you still consider yourself a child of God.
May 7th, 2010 at 2:54 am
So then how is it Mark, that there are people who are homosexuals and who are preaching the Word of God, doing the works of Christ, displaying the fruit of the Spirit, and being used in powerful ways by God? Jerry Falwell’s ghost writer, Mel White, is gay yet Falwell spoke his words and they were taken as of God and from God? If homosexuality is such a sin, then why would God use them to do His work? Why would He call them to the pastorate? How could they preach the truth of the Good News? If God uses them to do his work, He accepts them and so should you.
May 7th, 2010 at 2:54 am
My argument is not whether homosexuality is a sin or not. My argument is that regardless of WHAT your sin is, God will still use the sinner for his purposes. And nothing you attempt to say can dispute that.
May 7th, 2010 at 2:56 am
venus
I am human. I am a sinner. but I do not act on my sins. Thats what a Christian does. Im not engageing in sexual acts because of my desires
May 7th, 2010 at 2:59 am
You acted on your lust when you looked at that woman lustfully. Therefore, you acted on your sin. If you didn’t act on it, what were you asking God’s forgiveness for?
May 7th, 2010 at 3:00 am
David and venus
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say unto me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” (Matthew 7:21-23)
May 7th, 2010 at 3:01 am
venus if I look away and dont look again I didnt act on it
May 7th, 2010 at 3:04 am
Mark you never answered my question! How is it that a homosexual was telling Jerry Falwell what to say, he was preaching it, and it was accepted as “truth” about the scriptures and from God? Must be that a homosexual can know truth???
May 7th, 2010 at 3:06 am
Ohhhh so there are different levels to committing sins?
Wow you are in very dangerous territory when it comes to designing your own interpretation of what constitutes sin.
Good luck with that.
May 7th, 2010 at 3:09 am
Using the words “look again” implies you’ve already done the act. You can’t repeat an act that wasn’t already committed.
May 7th, 2010 at 3:10 am
iniquity = all sin including homosexuality. you have been decieved by the devil if you think that homosexuality is not sin. Let God be my witness I have tried to lead you to the truth. I suggest to you david and venus to read the whole bible. Because it seems that you havent and if you have did you just skip over the parts that speak of homosexuality being an abomination to God..
May 7th, 2010 at 3:11 am
There is no limit on how many times you may ask forgiveness from God, even for the same repeated sin. This should not, of course, encourage us to keep on sinning. However it should encourage us to keep on repenting, to keep on struggling with our sin (Eph 6:10-18), and to keep on bringing our sin to the Saviour.
May 7th, 2010 at 3:12 am
David
not all people in the church are called by God
May 7th, 2010 at 3:13 am
Seems you cannot answer my question Mark because you’d have to admit that the words spoken by a homosexual were taken as the truth about God as spoken by Jerry Falwell. Now why would God use someone who was an “abomination” to Him?
May 7th, 2010 at 3:15 am
david
was he a practiceing homosexual or did he repent and turn from his ways?
May 7th, 2010 at 3:23 am
FACT: Dr. Rev. Falwell was trying to WARN folks not to make the wholly voluntary choice to live a homosexual lifestyle. As a man of God, his full-time job was to fight sin, and since gaydom is pretty much the worst sin there is, it’s perfectly natural for a straight fellow like Reverend Falwell to spend every waking minute of 73 entire years thinking and talking about naked homosexuals and the nitty-gritty details of all the disgusting ways they feverishly grind their private parts together.
May 7th, 2010 at 3:26 am
david
does that answer your question and I googled the writer that you speak of and could not find it
May 7th, 2010 at 3:28 am
now answer my question show me in the bible where it says homosexuality is not sin or is that your own doctrine
May 7th, 2010 at 3:34 am
Let’s talk about the meeting you had with Mel White, his people and your supporters. Are you happy you had that meeting?
Mel and I have been friends for about 15 years. He wrote for me, Dr. Billy Graham, Pat Robertson, and others, before he came out of the closet. After he came out in 1991, I maintained a relationship with him. In fact, I asked him to do some work for me after that, which he did not do, because he was taking over the leadership of what I call the grassroots gay and lesbian membership. The gay and lesbian community has its very passive, in-the-closet, quiet people on one extreme. On the other, there’s the wild, wooly Queer Nation, Act Up, burn-it-down, shoot-everything-in-sight crowd. And then the normal crowd, like all the rest of us, who live, do their own thing; they don’t want you bothering them, and they don’t want to bother you. Mel heads up that group. He’s a very sensible, intelligent person. We don’t agree on a lot of things, but we’re good friends.
How did this meeting come about?
Three years ago, he came here and spent the day with me, to try one more time to convince me that the Bible approves the behavior. At the end of the day, he had failed, and we made an agreement: “I believe that homosexuality is sin, but I like you. We can be friends if we can stipulate that.” And we have been friends.
Earlier this year he came and said, “Can we discuss violence on both sides?” This was after the Matthew Shepard event in the prior year, Billy Jack Gaither, Columbine, when some Christians were targeted, and the Wedgewood Baptist Church shooting in Ft. Worth. We agreed that we could talk, if they are willing to stipulate that we believe, as evangelicals, that the lifestyle is sinful–we’ll leave that out of the discussion. The discussion will be about how to lower the rhetoric, bring down the shrill voices, and hopefully assuage some of the violence. Our staffs and Mel met together for a couple of months, worked out all the details, and we had a weekend here in October . . . At the end of the weekend, we both agreed that we made a good first step. We both got some things we did want and didn’t get some things we wanted.
David even the writer admitted that homosexuality is………
May 7th, 2010 at 3:43 am
@MARK I SALUTE YOU FOR STANDIN IN THE TRUTH @VENUS AND DAVID STOP TRYIN TO COVER IT UP BECAUSE YOU WANT BE ABLE TO AND THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SINNINAGAINST YOURSELVE AND SINNIN AGAINST GOD.
May 7th, 2010 at 3:47 am
IF I WERE AN ACOHOLIC I AM HURTIN MY BODY IF I KEEP DOIN NOONE SAID IT WAS A SIN TO DRINK OVER DOIN ANYTHING BECOMES A PROBLEM U WILL EVENUALLY DESTROY THE BODY.BUT SOMETHING THAT GOD HAS PUT AND ODER AND TOLD US WHAT NOT TO DO HUM TROUBLE TROUBLE.MARK WHEN THE DEVIL HAS OVERTAKEN PEOPLE IN THOSE KINDS OF SPIRITS IF GOD DONT DELIVER THEM THEY AERE DUM.
May 7th, 2010 at 4:09 am
LOTT WAS PERMITTED TO GO IN THAT CITY AND GOD TOLD HIM IF HE COULD SAVE ONE SOUL HE WOULD SAVE THE CITY AND HE COULDNT SAVE ONE SO GOD DETROYED THE CITY. IF YOU ARE REALLY TURNED THTA WAY AINT NO RETURNED BACK SOME PEOPLE ARE ACTIN OUT AND NOT REALLY THAT WAY BUT IF THE DEVIL HAS REALLY FOOL U THEN THERE IS NO RETURN.
May 7th, 2010 at 4:28 am
Tanya go right ahead and diflect from what I posted if it helps your naive soul to feel competent in your lunacy. I didn’t create those passages. They are truth. You choose to use the Bible as your own personal buffet. Take what you want and disregard what doesn’t fit neatly in how you choose to live your life. Hmmmm how very familiar that sounds.
Throw a rock in a pack of dogs. The one who hollers is the one who got hit.
Converse amongst yourselves. Have a good evening.
May 7th, 2010 at 4:47 am
David, as one who was brought up in the church I can only say thank you God for His healing power…..I know from whence I came and where I am going…I have been set free from the law. FREEDOM….is wonderful!! cause I no longer live my life trying to prove my spirituality to other christian….I have nothing to prove my job is to LIVE!!!! I often tell my mom that if Jesus came back to this earth today…..christian would crucify Him again…..He would be to radical for them….you know like maybe having dinner with a homosexual Good to find out that there are people who know truth.
May 7th, 2010 at 4:49 am
Ummmm and Tanya before you go labeling people “dum” you might want to utilize that little feature called a spell checker and invest in some proper grammar classes. Better to be THOUGHT ignorant than to open your mouth and PROVE it.
May 7th, 2010 at 5:46 am
ok kathrine if you dont live under the law. does that mean that you live by new testament standards because here is what the bible says in 1 corinthians 6 9-20 new. Or do you dismiss this as you have the old testament??? you choose to deny the truth!!!
12 “All things are lawful for me,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful for me,” but I will not be enslaved by anything. 13 “Food is meant for the stomach and the stomach for food”—and God will destroy both one and the other. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14 And God raised the Lord and will also raise us up by his power. 15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? Never! 16 Or do you not know that he who is joined [3] to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For, as it is written, “The two will become one flesh.” 17 But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him. 18 Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin [4] a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, 20 for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.
May 7th, 2010 at 5:49 am
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous [1] will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, [2] 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Flee Sexual Immorality
12 “All things are lawful for me,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful for me,” but I will not be enslaved by anything. 13 “Food is meant for the stomach and the stomach for food”—and God will destroy both one and the other. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14 And God raised the Lord and will also raise us up by his power. 15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? Never! 16 Or do you not know that he who is joined [3] to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For, as it is written, “The two will become one flesh.” 17 But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him. 18 Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin [4] a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, 20 for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.
May 7th, 2010 at 6:02 am
you cannot practice homosexuality and claim to be a follower of Christ. God still loves you but you need to repent and abstain from homosexuality
May 7th, 2010 at 7:21 am
Ok Ok Mark you are right!!!!! you have all the answers and we are all being used by the devil YOU ARE RIGHT!!!!!! now please go with God…….
May 7th, 2010 at 7:40 am
Kathrine
read the bible everthing I tell you is scripture. its not about being right or wrong its what the bible says. and yeah if you too are one saying that homosexuality is not sin then you the devil uses you to spread his lies and deceit
May 7th, 2010 at 8:02 am
Mark,Mark….I have read the bible let me put it this way…..we all interpret the word thru our own paradiem….meaning within the scope of our reality……so please take your reality and shove it down somebody elses throat…..ok already you can sit here all day and continue to quote scripture…..and we may say WOW isn’t he good and doesn’t he know the word….and now you can go away feeling like you have just done the work of God!!!! only to find out that you are waring against yourself (the body of Christ) who don’t choose to be so judgemental or have such hell and damnation views……but then again the devil has entered into us and is using us against YOU and on and on and on……………
May 7th, 2010 at 8:05 am
kathrine how do you in terpret this scripture
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous [1] will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, [2] 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Flee Sexual Immorality
12 “All things are lawful for me,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful for me,” but I will not be enslaved by anything. 13 “Food is meant for the stomach and the stomach for food”—and God will destroy both one and the other. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14 And God raised the Lord and will also raise us up by his power. 15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? Never! 16 Or do you not know that he who is joined [3] to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For, as it is written, “The two will become one flesh.” 17 But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him. 18 Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin [4] a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, 20 for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.
there is only one truth!!!
May 7th, 2010 at 8:10 am
ok blah..blah….blah…blah,blah blah,blah blah blah……now do you understand?
May 7th, 2010 at 8:12 am
and its not about how well I know scripture. its about everyone reading that they know the truth as well. So that none are deceived by the lies that are being told about homosexuality not being sin. homosexuality is sin and need to be repented from and rebuked.
May 7th, 2010 at 8:23 am
blah blah blah…. So to you its just the words of someone speaking meaningless words? but you profess Christianity?
May 7th, 2010 at 8:26 am
the scripture is very clear on homosexuality. how can your truth be different than mine?
May 7th, 2010 at 8:37 am
so I say again if you are a practiceing homosexual continueing in your sexual desires. you cannot call yourself a follower of Christ. Repent and change your ways thats what Jesus said. How can you claim the body of Christ. When you burn for your own sexual desires???
May 7th, 2010 at 8:49 am
A brother in Christ on another post says this and I fully agree with him.
The Bible is meant to be a word for word interpretation. Under what autority do you say that it isn’t? The Bible itself says “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness” 2 Timothy 3:16 The miniute a person decides that the whole bible isn’t the word of God is the minute that it looses it’s ability to change you. If I can pick and choose what I like then I’m the God of my life, not the God of the Bible.
May 7th, 2010 at 9:36 am
Mark, my response was to you asking me to interpret the word you quoted…..Mark you win you win you win……and you can tell me it is not about winning…I DO NOT BELIEVE YOU! call me a devil worshiper call me a heretic call me whatever…..I know when a person doth protest too much and “brother” thou doest protest too much……..so again you win…….be at peace with your own near sightedness…cause I am sure you draw alot of people to Jesus with your judgemental attitude…..enough said!!!!!!!
May 7th, 2010 at 10:21 am
Mark I knew all along that your theology was warped and you just proved it to me. You’ve created your own theology that is not of the Bible or of God. First you gradate sin, saying that some sins are worse than others, which is unbiblical and no where to be found in scripture for sin is sin. Secondly, you state that a particular sin (homosexuality) can keep someone from the saving grace of Christ, thus giving sin greater power than God, which is unbiblical. “What can keep us from the love of Christ?” scripture asks, the answer? Nothing, not humans, not principalities, not kingdoms, NOT SIN. So who is the heretic here? Christians like you create your own theology of hatred, formed in your own meglomanical image, and it surely not the theology of Christ. Follow the teachings of our Lord and savior, not your own twisted views.
May 7th, 2010 at 10:40 am
Yeah and amen……
May 7th, 2010 at 12:24 pm
david
show me where the bible says homosexuality is not sin. your the one twisting theology not me. you dont even think homosexuality is a sin. when it is scripture. how twisted is that. Read the scripture again
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous [1] will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, [2] 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Flee Sexual Immorality
12 “All things are lawful for me,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful for me,” but I will not be enslaved by anything. 13 “Food is meant for the stomach and the stomach for food”—and God will destroy both one and the other. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14 And God raised the Lord and will also raise us up by his power. 15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? Never! 16 Or do you not know that he who is joined [3] to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For, as it is written, “The two will become one flesh.” 17 But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him. 18 Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin [4] a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, 20 for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.
May 7th, 2010 at 12:25 pm
kathrine you make no sense at all
May 7th, 2010 at 12:27 pm
David and katherine
prove what you say in scripture…. you cant so stop lieing to yourself and others
May 7th, 2010 at 12:29 pm
Im not the judge God is. repent and turn from your ways.
May 7th, 2010 at 12:42 pm
@VENUS I ADMIT I MESSED UP TRYING TO TYPE FAST BUT THAT DOESNT MATTER WHAT MATTERS IF U WILL INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD.AND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN U AND I VENUS I DONT JUST KNOW THE SCRIPTURES AND THE BIBLE I KNOW JESUS AND U ARE GOING TO HAVE TO KNOW HIM TO AND HIS WAYS IF U ARE EXPECTING TO LIVE IN HIS KINGDOM.YOU KNOW SOMETHING ELSE THE TRUTH HURTS.AND YOU KNOW SOMETHING ELSE THE LORDS WANTS TO BE OUR LORD AND SAVIOR.DO U KNOW WHAT LORD ME HE WANTS TO GOVERN YOU HAVE RULE OVER US HOLE HEARTLY IN ORDER FOR HIM TO DO THAT WE GOT TO BE WILLING TO GIVE UP SOMETHIN MEANING THE WAYS OF THIS FLESH. THERE ARE 17 DIFFERENT WORKS OF YOUR FLESH HE IS NOT GOING TO RECIEVE US IN ALL KINDS OF MESS HES COMING BACK FOR HIS SPIRIT.A SHEEP WILL HEAR THE MASTERS VOICE BUT A STRANGER WANT EVEN FOLLOW AFTER.A GOAT WILL BUT AGAINST EVERYTIME.TO HEAR THE MASTERS VOICE VENUS HE IS NOT A SPIRIT OUT THE AIR HE HAVE SONS AND DAUGHTERS THAT WILL TELL YOU HIS PERFECT WILL WHEN HES YOUR LORD YOU DONT BELONG TO YOOURSELVE ANYMORE ONLY HE WILL GOVERN YOU AND IF YOU LOVE HIM YOU WILL DO WHAT HE SAY THAT GO FOR ME TO I AM NOT EXEMPT.SO U TALKIN ABOUT THROWING STONES I DONT DO THAT IM TRYING TO MAKE IT TO KNOWING THAT HELL WASNT DESIGN FOR ME SO WORKING OUT MY SOUL SALVATION I DONT HAVE TO DO JESUS GAVE HIS LIFE FOR ME.HE SAID TAKE UP YOUR CROSS AND FOLLOW AFTER ME. VENUS AND ANYONE ELSE YOU CAN BE SAVE IF YOU WANT YOU HAVE TO HEAR THE MASTER VOICE AND WHEN YOU HEAR HIS VOICE REALLY HEAR HIS VOICE YOU WANT BE THE SAME ANYMORE.
May 7th, 2010 at 1:06 pm
YO UHAVE TO SAY LORD HEAR I AM BECAUSE IN THIS FLESH I DONT KNOW WHY YOU ARE DEFENDING IT BECAUSE GOD HAS SAID ITS GOING BACK TO THE DUST FROM WHICH IT COMETH SO WHY YOU TRIN TO WHOLE ON TO IT .BUT IF YOU DONT HAVE HIS SPIRIT YOU OF NON OF HIS JUST PLAN AND SIMPLE.WHAT HE SAY TO ONE HE SAY TO ALL.THE SCRIPTURES DONT MEAN NOTHING YOU BETTER KNOW JESUS THE BIBLE IS JUST INK AND PAPER WRITTEN FOR UNBELIEVERS THATS IN THERE YOU HAD BETTER BE SHOW THAT ITS WRITTEN ON THE TABLE OF YOUR HEARTS.JUST BECAUSE YOU SEEM TO CONDONE HOMOSEXUIALITY THAT DONT MEAN ITS RIGHT IN THE SIGHT OF GOD SHIT YEAH I SAID YOU READY TO COMDEMN ME BECAUSE I SAID SHIT ON PURPOSE READY FOR YOU TO COME BACK GOT SOMETHING FOR THAT TOO.I AINT TRYING TO CONVERT YOU BUT I AM CHARGED TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH WHETHER YOU AGREE OR NOT GOD IS NOT JUST GONE PUT YOU IN HELL YO UGOT REJET JESUS THE ONE WHOM HE SUNT FOR YOU AND I AND YOU REJETTIN HIM BY OBEYIN THE WILL OF YOUR STANKING BEHIND FLESH.WHAT YO UTHINK GOD DELIVERS HIS PEOPLE OUT OF BONGAGE TO TAKE US BACK IN IT GOD IS NOT THAT KIND OF GOD.HE LOVE U I DDNT SAY NAH TIME THAT CHRIST DDNT LOVE ANY ONE BECAUSE THE WORD SAYS GOD SO LOVE I MEAN SO LOVE THE WORLD THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON THAT WHOSO EVER WILL TO FOLLOW HIM THERE HAS TO BECOME CHANGE AND ITS JUST THAT SIMPLE. LEAN NOT TO YOUR ON UNDERSTANDIN IF YOU TAKE THE WORD JUST HOW IT IS ITS BLESSINGS IN THAT QUIT TRYIN TO WORM YOUR WAY OUT WITH YOUR OWN IDEALISTIC MINDS SEEK THE LORD WHY HE MAY BE FOUND CALL UPON HIM WHY HES NEAR AND HE WILL DIRECT YOUR PATH BY FAITH.IF YO UCAN BELIEVE THE WORD THAT I WRITE HEAR TONITE AND ASK THE LORD AND SEEK HIM FOR A CHANGED HEART HE WILL HEAR A SINNERS PRAYER YOU HAVE TO KNOW THAT YOUR MIND IS SCREWED UP ASK THE LORD TO RENEW YOUR MIND TELL HIM THAT YOU NEED SAVING IN YOUR PRAYERS BEG HIM HUMBLE YOURSELVE.I DONT DOUBT WHAT GOD CAN DO BUT YOU HAVE TO TRUST HIM IN ALL THINGS TALKINA BOUT THAT SHEEP AGAIN TELL HIM YOU WANT TO BE A SHEEP NOT CAUGHT UP IN THE GOATS FIELD U KNOW THEY HAVE TENDIES OF BUT BUT BUT.I WANT TO SEE YOU MAKE IT BUT WHATEVER HE REQUIRES OF ME AND TELL ME THE SAME WORD FOR YOU TO IT AINT ABOUT WHAT YOU BELIEVE ITS ABOUT WHAT THE LORD SAYS YOU WANT TO PLS GOD DONT LET THE DEVIL CONTINUE TO FOOOLU RUN FOR YOUR LIFE RUN FOR YOUR LIFE.
May 7th, 2010 at 1:18 pm
WHEN IT COMES TO THE TRUTH OF GOD HE WILL SHOW ALL OF US UP BUT THE DIFFRENCE IS THERE ARE SHEEPS AND THERE ARE GOATS WHICH ONE ARE YOU.I DONT CARE ABOUT PRIDE OR ANYTHING I CAN COME BOLDLY TO THE THRONE OF GRACE.BUMP MAN THEY DONT HAVE ANYWHERE TO PUT YOU BUT I HAVE GREAT RESPECT FOR GODS FAMILY AND HIS DISICPLES.YOU KNOW FOR YOURSELVE THAT GOD CREATED MAN IN HIS OWN IMAGE BECAUSE HE LOVE MAN SO MUCH HE LOOK DOWN AND SAW THAT ADAM WAS LONELY AND MADE A MATE FOR ADAM AND HER NAME WAS EVE NOT STEVE AND HE TOLD THEM TO BE FRUITFUL AND MULTIPLY HOW YOU GONE MULTIPLY WITH TWO OR TWO MEN HE DESIGNED A MAN PENIUS TO GO INTO A WOMANS VAGANINA TGFJ BECAUSE ITS GOOD TO BUT TO BARE THOSE LABOR PAINS AINT KNOW JOKE.
May 7th, 2010 at 1:22 pm
CHRISTIAN-MEANS CHRIST LIKE CHRISTIANS ARE NOT THE REASON WHY SINNERS WANT COME TO CHRIST YOU ARE YOUR WORST ENEMY STOP FEELIN SORRY FOR YOURSELVES JESUS HAVE AALREADY MADE THE WAY ALL WE GOT TO DO IS FOLLOW.LOVE HAVE I DRAWN THEE TGFOR YOUR LOVEBECAUSE I AM CONVICTED AND CONVERTED THAT MEANS A CHANGE GOT TO COME
May 7th, 2010 at 1:40 pm
@ MARK ITS NOT A SIN ITS AN ABOMINATION AGAINST GOD THE RIGHTEOOUS ONE THE HOLY ONE.THATS WORSE THAN SIN SIMPLY MEANING THAT YO UHAVE SINNED AGAINST GOD.IT JUST LIKE SLAPPING GOD IN THE FACE AND SAYIN ADAM FOR STEVE AND EVE FOR SHELIA THEN GOT THE NERVE TO SAY GOD MADE THEM THAT AWAY AND CALLIN YOURSELVE A PREACHER AND A PASTOR SHIT SHIT SHIT THATS THE WORD SHIT HOT DANG MY MY MY @ MARK HE TOLD US THIS WOULD HAPPEN IN THE LAST DAYS IM NOT SUPRISE BECAUSE SPIRITS ARE REAL WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND PEOPLE PARRISH BECAUSE THE LACK OF KNOWLEDGE WHICH MEANS ABOUT CHRIST, PAULWAS AN EDUCATED MAN BUT HE GOT KNOCKED OFF THAT HORSE I BET U.DAVID WAS A MAN AFTER GODS OWN HEART WE AINT KNOW DIFFERENT YOU GOT TO BE CONVERTED.THAT SHEEP A SHEEP COME MEET A MAN THAT TOLD ME EVERYTHING THAT IVE DONE HALALUJAH WHAT MATTER OF MAN IS THIS
May 7th, 2010 at 6:45 pm
SMH @ YOU LOST SHEEP CHASING YOUR OWN TAILS AND USING GOD TO ADVANCE YOUR OWN AGENDAS
MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON YOUR SOULS. I HOPE TO SEE YOU THERE WHEN I JOIN MY LORD ON JUDGMENT DAY.
May 7th, 2010 at 11:46 pm
tayna, Your the devil, If your son is gay you should hug him and tell him that he is loved by you and god! I’m glad your not my mother. have a nice mothers day. hope your son doesn’t kill him self because of the evil thing you told him. i pray that he is strong an knows gods love if he is and does. that means he has defeated satan (you the devil mom). p.s. your are a ignorant bitch that thinks she is christain.
May 7th, 2010 at 11:54 pm
mark,
who the f*** are you to tell anyone there not a christain. what makes you so special? The son of god is called jesus christ! not some dumb f*** called mark on the internet.
May 8th, 2010 at 12:44 am
@ THAD ONE THING ABOUT MY SON HE KNOWS THAT IF HE WOULD HAVE CONTINUE HE WOULD SPIN ETERNITY IN HELL. SEE MY SON ACKNOWELEDGE THAT ITS AGAINST GOD AND HE DONT SUPPORT THOSE SPIRITS HYE PRAY AND ASK GOD FOR HELP AND DELIVER HIM OUT OF THE HANDS OF SATAN IF YOU MEET MY SON YOU PROBALY WOULD USE PROFANE LANGUAGE AT HIM AS WELL BECAUSE AT 18 IF HE IS WRONG HE WILL STAND AGAINST HIMSELF AND WILL NOT YOKE UP WITH U.HE KNOWS GOD LOVES HIM AND HE IS A YOUNG MAN OF GOD READY TO BE USED BY GOD.HE KNOWS I LOVE HIM AND WANT TO SEE HIM EXCAPE THE DAMNATION OF HELL BECAUSE THATS WHERE YOUR SOUL IS GONNA G OSTRAIGHT TO HELL IF YOU ARE PRACTICING SUCH SHIT
May 8th, 2010 at 1:13 am
AND SEE THAD U GOT SHIT TWISTED I DO NOT SUPPORT THE DEVIL AND GOD TO THE LOVE OF GOD IS NOT SUPPORTING THE DEVILS WORK LIGHT AND DARKNESS DONT MISS BY THE HELP OF GOD I WILL COME AGAINST EVERY DEMON AND DEVIL THAT TRY AND TAKE OVER GODS SONS AND DAUGHTERSI DONT CARE IF ITS ONE IN ME CAST IT OUT LORD HERE I AM I DONT WANT KNOW PARTS OF SATAN GIVE ME JESUS ANYDAY.WHEN U TAKE A STAND FOR CHRIST THAD YOU DONT SUPPORT SATAN U COME AGAINST DEMONS AND DEVILS THTA BEING SAID IF ITS YOUR OWN MOTHER AND IF YOURE ON THE LORD SIDE COME AGAINST THE LORD CHASEN WHOM HE LOVES WHY DONT YOU JOIN ME AND TELL GOD TO CREATE YOU A CLEAN HEART AND RENEW THE RIGHT SPIRIT OR GIVE YOU HIS SPIRIT THEN YOU CAN JOIN MARK AND I AND OTHERS AND COME AGAINST THESE SPIRITS THAT COME FROM HELL.NOT ONLY THAT YOU WILL IDENTIFY WHEN THEY RISE UP AND APPROCIATE YOU STOP CODONING THIS ABOMINATION YOU CANT GET FORGIVEN FOR BECAUSE AFTER YOU HAVE SLAP GOD AND LITERALLY HAS TOLD HIM HIS FACE THAT HE IS A LIAR THEN WHO CAN U TURN TO NOBODY THATS WHY ITS CALL ABOMINATION OH YEAH YOU CAN COME OUT IF YOU WANT TO ON CHRIST BUT TELL ME SOMEBODY OR NAME SOMEBODY THAT YOU KNOW THAT WAS REALLY LIKE THAT EVER EVER CAME TO REPENTANCE AND TURN THEY CANT.BECAUSE THEY DONT WANT TO GIVE IT UP. GOD SAID ADAM AND EVE AND YOU CALLIN GOD A LIAR NO LORD ADAM AND STEVE COME ON PEOPLE GOD IS NOT GOING TO TOLERATE THAT I DONT CARE WHAT YOUR VIEWS ARE NOR MINDS I HOPE AND PRAY THAT YOU PEOPLE CAN COME OUT AND I ALSO PRAY THAT THE LORD KEEP ME FORM THOSE SPIRITS BECAUSE I ALSO KNOW THAT I AM NOT EXEMPT AND THE DEVIL AINT PLAYIN HE IS ON HIS JOB AND HE IS PLAYIN FOR KEEPS.
May 8th, 2010 at 1:19 am
@VENUS I JUST REALIZE WHAT YOU JUST SAID TALKIN ABOUT DUM I WASNT TRYIN TO SAY DUMB I WAS TRYIN TO SAY DOOM.LOL@THAD I HAVE GAY FRIENDS THEY ARE SOME OF THE MOST WONDERFUL PEOPLE BUT I DONT SUPPORT THEM I TELL THEM AND THEY TELL ME I KNOW I SHOULDNT BE DOIN THIS YOU PRAY FOR ME AND SOME OF THEM WANT TO COME OUT AND CANT.
May 8th, 2010 at 2:03 am
AND THE MOST COMMENTS ON HERE THATS TRYIN TO COVER UP HOMESEXUALITY TALKIN ABOUT ALL ARE SINNES I WANT YOU TO KNOW WHEN I HEAR THE TRUTH I WILL WITNESS IT THATS TRUE WE ALL ARE SINNERS BUT THE DIFFERENCE IN YOU AND I I AM A SINNER SAVE BY GODS GRACE NOT YOURS HE HAVE MERCY ON WHOM HE PLS BECAUSE HES GIVING DUMD MINDED PEOPLE A CHANCE TO CHANGE FORM THERE WICKED WAS AND TURN TO HIM
May 8th, 2010 at 2:15 am
NOW TO YOU MY QUESTION IS DO YOU KNOW THE PLAN OF SALVATION HAVE YOU BEEN WASHED IN THE BLOOD.TITUS THE BOOK OF TITUS WILL TELL YOU THE PLACE A PASTOR OF GOD SUPPOSE IN.SORRY SCRIPTURE DO NOT BACK UP MINISTERS AND PASTORS BEING HOMO.AND YOU TALKIN ABOUT THE LOVE OF GOD CAN YOU EVEN IDENTIFY THE LOVE OF GOD.IM SHOWING MY FATHER UP AND CHRIST UP WITH LOVE ON THIS INTERNET IF YOU CAN BELIEVE BY TELLING U THE TRUTH ITS UP TO U WHETHER YOU WANT TO EXCEPT IT .ITS THE TRUTH ANYHOW.AND THATS WHAT THE LOVE OF GOD DOES IT TELLS USE THE NAKED TRUTHWHETHER WE WANT TO HEAR IT OR NOT.IT WILL COME AGAINST THOSE DEMONS IN DEVILS IN YOU I THANK GOD FOR TRUTH AND I AM GLAD HE LETS ME KNOW. I APPRICATE HIS KNOWLEDGE AND TRUTH BECAUSE I COULD STILL BE IN DARKNESS YOU HAVE TO LOVE ONE AND HATE THE OTHER.JUST BECAUSE IM A SINNER AND I SIN YOU THINK THAT I AM GOING TO UPHOLD IT HELL NAH A SHEEP WILL SAY LORD I NEED YOU HERE I AM SAVE ME HELP ME WHATEVER YOU NEED GOD GOT IT AND THE TRUTH I DONT SEE WHY ANYONE CANT MAKE IT THROUGH THE LOVE OF CHRIST AND ITS NOT PEACHES AND WHIPPED CREAM ALL THE TIME.
May 8th, 2010 at 2:20 am
A PASTOR DO YOU EVEN KNOW A JOB OF A PASTOR A PASTOR WATCHES OVER GODS SHEEP HOW IN THE WORLD HELLO SOMEBODY I MEAN IM STILL POURING OUT GOD LOVE WHICH IS THRUTH BY FAITH IS THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN RECIEVE IT HALF OF YALL THATS COMMENT DONT REALLY KNOW THE LOVE OF GOD AND IF YOU WERE HIS SON OR DAUGHTER YO UWOULD FEEL SOME POWER RIGHT NOW THROUGH THESE POWERFUL WORDS. THEN PEOPLE TALKIN BOUT THE DEVIL CAN QOUTE SCRIPTURES I GUESS HE CAN THATS HOW HE DECIEVE PEOLPE THATS HOW HES DECIEVEIN YOU AND CONVINCIN YOU THE HOMOSEX IS OK AND CONVINCIN YOU THAT GOD MADE PEOPLE THAT WAY.THE DEVIL KNOWS THE PLAN OF GOD
May 8th, 2010 at 2:25 am
SEE WRESTLE NOT AGAINST FLESH AND BLOOD BUT PRICIPALITIES OF THE AIR WHICH MEANIN DEMONS AND DEVILS YOU CNAT SEE THEM THATS WHY TO RECIEVE GOD WORD YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE IT BY FAITH SEEIN IS BELIVING WORDS ARE SPIRIT SO WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT LET GOD BE MY JUDGE HE HIS JUDGING YOU.THE WORDS THAT HE SPEAK UNTO US IS POPWER AND JUST BECAUSE THAT HE HIS TELLIN YOU THAT YOU SHOULDNT DO SOMETHING HE IS ONLY TRYIN TO GIVE YOU IGNORANT PEOPLE HEADS UP AND TRYIN TO LOOK AFTER YOU YOU CANT MASTER THE DEVIL ITS GONE TAKE THE LORD SO STOP TRYIN TO BATTLE THE TRUTH AND GET THE WAX OUT YOUR EARS ONLY THEN WILL YOU HERE THE MASTERS VOICE SAYIN YOU CAN COME OUT ON HIM
May 9th, 2010 at 12:44 am
WHY ARENT YALL SAYIN ANYTHING NOW WHERE ARE YOU VENUS DAVID THAD
May 11th, 2010 at 12:34 am
I also want to disprove the arugument I keep hearing that since “This is how God made me then it’s Ok”….”Or why am I happy doing this if it’s wrong”. This logic even falls apart when you examine it from our current socienties eyes. I’m sure what Ted Bundy and Charles Manson did made them happy but does that make it ok? I’m sure the kids that shot up Columbine felt justified in their own eyes because of their parents or they way they were treated by their peers but does that make it ok? Did you know our prisons are full of people whom have genes that make them want to commit violet crimes (5HTT and MAOA). Does this make it ok? Not even by societies standards does this logic work. Examinine ourselved against Gods laws is the only standard we have that does not move. I can’t tell if my car is moving by looking at another car, that will just make thigs worse. I need to look at a stationary object. Gods laws are unchanging where societies laws are ever changing. Examining your worthyness before God by comparining yourself to socieity is just as foolish as examining if your car is moving by looking at another car. You’ll end up in worse shape then you started. You need to focus on a stationary object such as the Bible to examine yourself.
May 11th, 2010 at 1:42 am
Daniel, this is moronic reasoning and I am sorry to be so blunt. First off, no one is saying that as long as something “feels good” it’s OK, do you take us for idiots? I guess so. Secondly, to liken gays to Ted Bundy, Charles Manson and Clumbine is reprehensible and revolting and in line with other ignorant and assinine thinking that they are all pedophiles.
To address your statement about our prison population my answer is yes, if these people have legitamate neuropsychological damage and disorders then maybe what they need is treatment and not punishment. God knows how effective prison is at rehabilitating criminals right? The recidivism rates are extremely high so we need to consider other methods.
Lastly, you talk about looking at a stationary object, such as God’s laws, which are unchangeable? Really? Yes the 10 commandments are unchangeable but last time I checked we’re not stoning people for stealing or committing adultry or when are children disobey us, are we? We’re not wearing head coverings, not providing blood sacrifices, not going into ungodly cities and killing all the men, women and children, not striking down unbelievers with fire, not eating pork and dairy, not marrying our brothers wife when he dies, etc. etc. I could go on and on and these WERE God’s laws yet we do not follow them anymore. Why? Because they were CULTURAL and a part of a historical context (Israel) that is different than ours and not intended for us. When Christ came he gave us the ultimate law: love the Lord your God with all your heart and soul and YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF. Christ Himself said that THE ENTIRE LAW IS SUMMED UP IN THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS. Remember when he was asked “well, who’s my neighbor?” Christ said EVERYONE, that would include gays. Yes, we are to love gays as we love ourselves or we are not fulfilling the LAW OF CHRIST.
May 11th, 2010 at 2:50 am
People, I really think you should put this matter to rest. It is getting out of hand. Some comments are downright improper and even “nasty”. The Bible said “in the multitudes of words there wanteth much sin”, and it pains me to see some of the unkind things we say to one another to “prove a point”. Jesus never push His words down anyone’s throats.
As I said before, even nature teaches us that every male find his female. God’s words does not change. Sin is sin, including homosexualism. BUT we need to rest this case and pray that God take over and do HIS thing.
When God uses HIS spokeperson to warn the nation, HE doesn’t expect him/her to call “fire & brimestone” on them. His main purpose is that he/she would stand in the gap and plead the cause with God.
It would be best to pray for this church and elders and ask God to have HIS way in their midst. Let HIM do the work and leave it at that.
May 11th, 2010 at 8:25 am
David,
Please pray and read Romans 6 and tell me how you make that theologicly make sense. I read the Bible, examine it agains my own heart, and then readjust my thinking based on what it says. That’s called repentance. Without repentance there is no salvation and repentance is all about changing your ways to match Gods ways. If I’m not following all of what the Bible says then I may as well throw the whole book away. If I get to choose what I want to believe then I’m God in my own eyes.
May 11th, 2010 at 8:58 am
David,
Why stop at quoting Deuteronomy when talking about stoning children. Jesus himself quoted this verse in Mathew 15! Does this mean he doesn’t agree with the verse? No. He was making a point to the pharasies that they were in willful violation to the law and therefor subject to death but yet were after his deciples out of spite. What’s interesting to our discussion on this web site is that Jusus turns this conversation to saying that sexual imorality is one thing that makes a man unclean in vs. 19. Also, you act as if Jesus doesn’t ask us to stop sining and he’s ok with us living in our sin. In John 8 when Jesus had compassion on the adulterer that was going to be stoned, he takes her aside after the incident and tells her to “sin no more”. If she kept going right ahead and doing it what do you think her eternal concequences would have been? I just don’t understand you’re interpretation of the scriptures at all. It seems to me we have a “church” with a luke warm embrase of Christ much like the Laodicea church in Revelation 3 where Christ said he would ’spit you out of my mouth’.
May 11th, 2010 at 10:09 am
I REALLY DONT WANT TO SOUND LIKE IM CONDEMNING ANYONE.JUST ONLY CHARGED TO TELL THE TRUTH.ON THE REAL THOUGH I HAVE ENJOYED TO BE ABLE TO EXPRESS MY VIEWS ON THIS SUBJECT I HOPE TO SOME THAT MY LIGHT WAS ABLE TO SHINE.THAT LIGHT WOULD BE CHRIST JESUS.I REALLY APPRCIATE EVERYONE ONE HERE FOR HONESTY AND ALLOWING ME TO EXPRESS MY FEWS AND JUST READING WAT I WAS WRITING YOU DIDNT HAVE TO.THE ONES THAT WHAT I WAS TRYING TO EXPRESS WAS WITNESS THE TRUTH AND IT WAS A MYSTERY I PRAY THAT SOMEDAY GOD WILL REVEAL IT TO YOU HIS PLAN IF SALVATION AND ALL THINGS.IF I OFFENDED SOMEBODY I AM SORRY REALLY BUT I WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE IF I DONT TELL YOU WHAT THE LORD SAID.IN TIME I REALLY HOPE THE CHRIST SPIRIT WILL BE DOMINION AND POWER OVER ALL.AND TO ALL BE BLESSED AND ONE THING TO REMEMBER PEOPLE WE ALL NEED JESUS NOW MORE THAN EVER ITS NOT ENOUGH ON A SUNDAY WE NEED TO GET CLOSER AND STAY CLOSER TO GOD BECAUSE THE DEVIL IS WAITING TO CATCH US SLIPPIN TO JUST REMEMBER HOLD ON TO GODS UNCHANGING HAND.LOVE EVERYONE AND GOD DO TO.HAD FUN!!!
May 11th, 2010 at 12:28 pm
To all… we can go on interpreting scripture till the cows come home…..we are never going to agree…..I am not responsible for anyones relationship with God…..I am asked to LOVE…..and not pass judgement on anyone….condeming someone to hell for the life they are living is not our job..For God sent not His Son into the world to condem the world….BUT that the world thru Him might be saved….If the Son of God could come into this world and not condem us then who are we to condem some one to hell. isn’t it amazing that when Christ was on this earth that His anger was with the pharasies (preacher and leaders) of the church…we need to remember that God judges our heart and not our actions…..because He knows us..and because of Jesus Christ we can have relationship with Him….
May 11th, 2010 at 8:29 pm
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and soul and your neighbor as yourself, the totality of the law is summed up in these two commands as Christ Himself said. Nothing about condeming and judging, only about LOVING. If we all did this we’d all be fine and live in harmony with each other, simple as that. So, why don’t we start doing it???
May 11th, 2010 at 8:42 pm
Once again, you guys are taking this “do not judge” thing completely out of the context in which Christ intended. Below is a quote from Pastor Doug off of amazingfacts.org. “Jesus said if you judge, judge a righteous judgment. The Bible tells us that we will know if a person is genuine or not by their fruit. You’ve obviously got to evaluate if someone is genuine by the fruits in their lives. So this diversionary tactic people often use of saying, ‘don’t judge – you’re judging me’, that’s not how God ever meant that Scripture. It means you should not condemn and pass judgment on people; but the idea that we’re not to evaluate – you know the Bible tells us in essence, we are our brother’s keeper. We are to care about one another. James tells us that if we see a brother who’s taken in a fault, those that are spiritual should go to him and plead with him and try to bring him back again; and know that he who converts a sinner from his ways has delivered his soul from death. So you know what I’m saying?” So, it is totally apropriate for a believer to pull another beliver aside and tell them they are on the wrong path.
May 11th, 2010 at 8:57 pm
Katherine,
You ARE responsible for other’s relationship with God. How is letting someone go astray loving them? You need to love people enough to do the hard thing and let them know they are following a false doctrine. ‘Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; let him know, that he which converts the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and hide a multitude of sins.’ Shoot, I can let my child play in the street and he’ll get mad at me if I tell him he has to come in or he’s going to get hurt, but am I loving my child by letting them play in the street?
May 11th, 2010 at 9:03 pm
Kathrine,
You also quote ‘For God sent his son into the world not to condemn the world..’ but you stoped before you got to the point of the scripture. Here’s the rest of it “…but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.” In other words Jesus didn’t come to condemn us because we’re already condemned unless something changes. He goes on to say that “everyone who does evil hates the light and will not come to the light least his deeds be exposed.”
May 11th, 2010 at 9:16 pm
One last thing. Katherine, I beleive you are right about it being what’s in your heart that matters. However, Christ said that from out of the heart comes evil thoughts, one being sexual imorality. What is harder, to not commit adultry (old testament) or to not lust (Christ’s command). See, adultry is an “action” that comes from lust out of the “heart”. Part of why Christ came is so that we can ‘eat his flesh’ take in his word and let it change our heart. The old testament was all about actions which can not be controlled unless our heart changes. And that can only happen by applying Christ’s teaching to our lives and letting it change us ‘eating his flesh’. If you refuse to accept part of his word how can it change your heart? It’s easy to take the parts of the Bible we agree with and follow those, now trying to take the parts of the Bible that talk about tithing, giving to the needy, taking up your cross and the cost that comes with it and apply those parts to your life. That’s what ‘accepting Christ’ is all about. It’s not about saying some prayer, it’s about taking him at his word and rejecting the things about yourself that disagree with Him. If I tell my wife “I believe in you” it doesn’t mean I beleive she exists or that she’s the daughter of so or so. It means I beleive enough to put my faith in what she says and adjust my life to follow her to a new job, etc.
May 11th, 2010 at 11:13 pm
I’m sorry I keep bringing this up but I just thought of another good way to explain this. I’m a manager. As a Christian I am to love my employees. Does that mean that I let them break the rules and do whatever they want without questioning them? Then what, when the organization is done with their shananagins I just fire them with no warning? How cruel is that! My job is to care about them and warn them that their on the wrong track. I’ve had discussions with people where I’m sure they thought I was a jerk but it’s my job to be point blank with them and tell them the things that they’re doing that are going to put their job in danger. They don’t like those discussions, I don’t like those discussions, but they are nessecary if I’m concerned about them. I’m obligated to give them some type of warning before that their job could be in danger.
May 12th, 2010 at 4:03 am
DANIEL I THINK THAT WAS WELL SAID. SEE THE SAINTS OF GOD CAN JUDGE THE WORLD .TRY THE SPIRIT BY THE WORD OF GOD.AND WHEN YOU DO ITS SOME HOLY GHOST POWER IN THERE FOR ME TO EAT.ITS THE WORD WHAT GETS US ON THE RIGHT TRACK TGFJ!!!! I CAN EITHER RECIEVE IT OR REJECT IT.
May 12th, 2010 at 4:06 am
SEE WE PREAHED NOT OURSLVES BUT CHRIST JESUS.WE ARE JUST INTRUMENST FOR THE LORD ITS NOT WHO YOU SEE NOR WHO YOU HERE BUT WHO YOU DONT HEAR OR WH YOU DONT SEE HOW MUCH CAN YOU BELIEVE.
May 12th, 2010 at 4:25 am
Danial, your right when it is your responsiblity to manage people you manage people….but in this case it is God who is in charge …..You do not understand the mercy and grace of God….you can have an opinion about homosexals but you can’t condem them to hell just because you don’t agree with the life they are living…LOVE LOVE LOVE AND DO NOT CONDEM…
May 12th, 2010 at 4:39 am
David, I think the reason that we can’t just love our neighbors as ourselves…the truth is we don’t like ourselves ….I think that sometimes it comes down to what kind of relationship we had with our parents….did they love us unconditionaly or did they demand us to be perfect!!! God love me unconditionaly!!! that means whatever I do His love is there. He said that He would never leave me nor forsake me….and He sees my inperfections and knew my faults and knew that I would continue to sin……JESUS STILL LAID DOWN HIS LIFE AND DIED FOR ME……
May 12th, 2010 at 9:29 pm
Katherine,
I think where you and I disagree is on our definition of love. What do you think love is? Will you explain it to me please?
May 12th, 2010 at 9:39 pm
Proverbs 13:24
Those who love their children care enough to discipline them.
Proverbs 17:9
Love prospers when a fault is forgiven, but dwelling on it separates close friends.
” Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.”
Romans 12:9
“If you love me you will keep my commandments,” says Jesus to us today (John 14:15).
He who heeds discipline shows the way to life, but whoever ignores correction leads others astray. (Proverbs 10:17 NIV)
If your brother sins, go and reprove him in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. And if he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax-gatherer. (Matthew 18:15-17)
May 12th, 2010 at 9:43 pm
I define love for you: “Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
Love is patient, kind, and KEEPS NO RECORDS OF WRONGS. Love is unconditional acceptance of others despite their flaws, just as Christ unconditionally accepts us despite our shortcomings. God is defined as Love and there is nothing greater than love.
May 12th, 2010 at 9:54 pm
Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted. Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. (Galatians 6:1-2 NIV)
May 12th, 2010 at 10:01 pm
David,
I agree with everything you said. However, where does the scripture say you are supposed to ignore the harm that someone is doing to themselves? Where does it say you are not supposed to correct a beleiver when they go astray? Where does it say you are just supposed to smile and agree when someone says that good is evil and says that evil is good? Love the sinner, hate the sin, right? Not love the sinner and tell him his sin is not really sin. That’s what you’re trying to tell me to do and I will never call God a lier like that.
May 12th, 2010 at 10:23 pm
Daniel, I guess we just have a different view of what “doing harm to themselves” means and what “sin” is. As I said, I don’t believe that being gay is a sin, and here we disagree. I just wish that Christians, like Christ showed us, would love more and judge/condem less. It is easy to judge and condem, it is difficult to love. As G.K. Chesterton so rightly notes, “Love means to love that which is unlovable; or it is no virtue at all.”
May 13th, 2010 at 12:23 am
David,
You know the funny thing, I agree that being a homosexual (someone who is attracted to the same sex) is not a sin. However, I do beleive that homosexuality (entertaining and performing same sex relationships) is a sin. If you disagree with homosexuality being a sin then we disagree on some more fundamental issues than homosexuality. What you’re saying is that you disagree with the Bible being a source of truth and if that’s your stance then I don’t know where we can find common ground. Can I ask you, are you a Christian?
May 13th, 2010 at 12:37 am
And therein lies what bothers me the most about my Christian bretheren, that if they disagree with me and my view on something, they take it upon themselves to have the audacity to ask if I am a Christian. It is definitely the most offensive, obnoxious, and self-righteous thing someone can do and is so pharisaical that I see God Himself cringing when it comes out of your ignorant mouth.
Though you deserve no answer to such an obnoxious question, I will tell you Daniel that I have been a Christian probably longer than you’ve been alive son (over 40 years). I once thought exactly the way you thought too, thank God almighty that I have matured in the Spirit and see more clearly today about my faith than I ever have. I only hope you’ll do the same. And yes, I do see scripture as THE source of truth, but remember Daniel, there are different interpretations of it than yours and you do not hold the corner on what that truth is (even if you think you do).
And BTW Daniel, your reasoning makes no sense. Christ said that if you lust after someone in your mind it’s the same as committing the act itself, so there is no difference between thought of the action and doing the action itself.
May 13th, 2010 at 12:51 am
LUST ,YES YOU ARE RIGHT IS A SIN ,BUT YOU CAN GET FORGIVEN FOR IT WHY BECAUSE GOD DESIGN USE ITS IN MY HUMAN NATURE OR SO TO SPEAK TO LUST AFTER A MAN,WHY BECAUSE I AM A WOMAN.BUT IAM AGAINST WHATEVER THE DEVIL TRIES TO PUT IN MY MIND.WE KNOW IN THE BEGINNING OG CREATION THAT FIRST WAS THE MAN FOR GOD THEN HE LOVE MAN SO MUNCH HE MADE THE WOMAN FOR THE MAN. THE MAN WAS LONELY.SO HERE COMES EVE!!!!!! GOD IS A SPIRIT PEOPLE GOD IS A SPIRIT AND THEY THAT WORSHIP HIM MUST WORSHIP HIM IN THE SPIRIT AND IN THE TRUTH FOR THE FATHER(WHO IS THE FATHER? SEEKTH SUCH TO WORSHIP HIM!!MY POINT PEOPLE(DO THE SPIRIT NEEDS SEX)?HELL NO.GOS IS LOVE GOD DOES LOVE HE LOVED MAN DDNT HE IN THE BEGINNIN THATS WHY WHEN MAN WAS LONELY HE CREATED EVE HER NAME WAS EVE EVE EVE EVE EVE WAS THE LADY FEMALES NAME AND HE TOLD MAN(ADAM)AND WOMAN(EVE)TO BE FRUITFUL AND MULTIPLY.NOW PEOPLE THAT SOUND TO ME THAT ADAM AND STEVE DONT EXSIST.
May 13th, 2010 at 12:57 am
That dont mean when I find myself lustin or anything else to do it and make excuses for sin people he loves us.why are you even questioning Gods love.Of,course he loves us thats why he sunt his only begotten son to save ignorant ass hardheaded ass humans.The devil wanted pure blood.All the sacrafice that was done in the old testment wasnt good enough.So,here come JESUS the savior GOds son through him we might be save.THats love right there.
May 13th, 2010 at 1:06 am
See David. I’ve been where you are and had a salvation experience and changed my thought process to where I am. So we have oppostie experiences. I beleive God has called me specifically to minister to others who think they are Christians but are really not. When I was younger I believed in God and said the ‘prayer of salvation’ but my life did not change. I didn’t understand it because according to the Bible I was supposed to be a new creation and I was still my old self. I remember one day hearing my preacher say that God thinks of us all the time but how often do we think about him. It made me think and wonder how could a person have God on thier mind all the time as I only thought about him while I was in church on Sunday’s. Then, a few years back I was at a point in my life where I knew that “my ways” hadn’t been working for me and I said the prayer of salvation again but this time I made a commitment to read the Bible and do things Gods way and my life has not been the same since. God is on my mind most of the day now and speaks to me througout the day through his word and prayer. It is honeslty like a real relationship now. My concern is how many others out there feel like they are on the right path and are not just as I was. It is not up to me to judge that about you David. However, it is my job to make you think about it and maybe trigger something in you and others to sit down and examine your heart. I won’t debate this with you or other any more as I don’t feel that it is what God called me to do. But I will ask you to examine if you live a changed life and are giving good fruit. If yes then I’m happy for you. But I need to plant this seed with you and others.
May 13th, 2010 at 1:21 am
The quetion is :DO YOU LOVE HIM?HOW MUCH DO YOU LOVE HIM!!!! So tell me something just because God loves us:WHAT,he got to accept us like we are? You are telling me that we aint got to give up nothing. He warns us about the devil and his imps and his ultimate job of satan.You sound so confused that you want even know the differnce in the masters voice and satans voice there has to be a separation,call it judgment all you want.Do you think when jesus comes back hes coming to save people? Salvation is now hes comin back as a conquering king!!!!!! The love of God is you had better find yourselves and come out on christ.Through him we can be, and you will be saved if you can walk out come out however you want to put it on him.There is a plan of salvation that the Lord has already put in place now you either believe that or nothing at all.You can sit there and be ignorant all you want thats not gonna save you from a burnin hell!!!Now ,the devil talks to all of our minds thats his job he is a (trickson).Who is love? You keep sayin that God love us.When you find yourselve caught up in this kind of spirit(homosexuality.Even if it get in your mind that this is o.k.God will still accept you.My advice to yo u,you had better find your consulting the Lord in prayer because then you are in the wrong spirit.Now,you can call it judgemental all you want it was there in the beginnin of creation.adam and eve so sounds like to me that God has already put it in place how he wanted things.The only being that you should have arguments with is the spirit of God.I ddnt create it to be so the Lord did.Be mad at him.
May 13th, 2010 at 1:39 am
GOD DONT HAVE HIS PEOPLE IGNORANT.HE WILL GIVE YOU KNOWLEDGE IF YO U WANT IT .THE MIND IS THE BATTLE OF THE TWO SPIRITS.BECAUSE IF YOU THINK THAT ITS OK TO BE A PASTOR
OF CHRIST IN A PULPIT PREACHING TO GODS PEOPLE AND HAVING A SAME SEX DERSIRE TO GET YOUR SEXUAL DERSIRES FULILLED,I WILL TELL YOU WHAT SPIRIT YOU ARE DEALING WITH THE SPIRIT OF THE D-E-V-I-L.GOD DOES NOT BACK IT UP.IF YO UARE CONVINCED THAT IT IS COOL AND ITS JUST LIKE ANYOTHER SIN THAN MY QUESTION TO YO UWHO HAVE BEWITCHED YOU OH YOU SICK GALATIANS? IF YOU FIND YOURSELVES ACCEPTIN THIS YOU SURE HAD BETTER FIND THAT LOVE IN GET IN TOUGH WITH THAT LOVE HES THE ONLY ONE THAT CAN MASTER THE DEVIL. WE,I, HAVE AN ADVOCATE WITH THE FATHER HE IS OUR HELP OUR GUIDE AND OUR PROTECTOR.HE IS MY SHIELD MY BUCKLER.AND HE IS ABLE TO REGULATE THAT MIND.QUESTION:ARE YOU READY TO LET THE RAPIST GO FREE? YES YOU CAN COME OUT ON LOVE COME OUT WHATS GOT YOU BOUND.NOT THE SAVIOR HELL HE WANT TO SEE YOU MAKE IT. HE FOUND INNIQUITYIN LUCIFER HEART KICKED HIM OUT AND HE WAS A ANGEL YOU THINK HE GONE KEEP YOU.HE WILL NOT EXCEPT YOU THIS WAY IF YOU HAVE CHOSEN TO BE THIS WAY AND JUST CANT TURN YOU WILL BE WITH YOUR FATHER WHOM YOU HAVE ACCEPTED WHICH IS SATAN!!!!!
May 13th, 2010 at 1:42 am
Now I have one simple question why is it that in the catholic and prostant and luthern churches that they do not want there priest to get married to a woman but they permit or reinstate a priest to have sexul relation with the same sex? Can someone pls answer that question for me.
May 13th, 2010 at 1:49 am
Tanya,
I think the question you asked “Do you love him?” is a very good question to ask. God gives us an easy way to determine if we love Him or not. John 14:15 says “If you love me, you will obey my commandments.” Love is not a feeling or emotion as our feelings are as unpredictable as the weather. God says Love is an action and we can tell if we love Him by if we keep his commands.
May 13th, 2010 at 1:56 am
Tanya,
You speak with a sharp toung but you speak the truth none the less. God has not given me the gift of prophacy as he has given you but he has given me the gift of teaching. My wife has the gift of praphacy as well and she gets angry and fired up about sin as you do. Keep growing in Christ and reading your Bible and don’t ever substitue a lie with the truth. God bless you.
May 13th, 2010 at 1:56 am
Daniel, I would argue that your “calling” is something that no one else but God should be dealing with. You see, you’re imperfect and sinful, just like me, so for you to ascertain whether someone is a Christian or not is not your place and personally I would run from that as fast as I could. You see, that’s why Christ rebuked the Pharisee’s beause they believed they had the “right” to determine who was a true believer and who was not (and we know that Christ called them as empty as tombs). Leave whether a person is a Christian or not up to God, who being perfect, has the ability and right to ascertain that. Rather, strenghten the believers and attend to the needs of those in need. Reconcile and strengthen, not judge and condem.
And BTW, while I agree that love is an action, it is also an emotion and a feeling as well. I know people who can “go thru the motions” and have all the right “Godly actions” but are as loveless and disconcerned about God as anyone. It’s both an attitude and an emotion/feeling that results in an action, I think that both are necessary.
May 13th, 2010 at 1:57 am
I mean the truth for a lie! :)
May 13th, 2010 at 2:00 am
I do agree with most of what you said. I’ve said what I felt lead to say and I’ll leave it at that ’cause the rest would be from me and not God. I release us both from this debate and may the Holy Spirit work on us both.
May 13th, 2010 at 2:08 am
May He continue to work in both of us and may he continue to lead us both in all aspects of life my brother. The peace of Christ I give to you.
May 13th, 2010 at 5:10 am
@ Daniel,no I am not a prophecy.I know my place in the Lord.I will be lying to you if I told you that Iam a prophet.Jesus is prophet, priest and king.Everything has been prophecisied already.Theres no need in a prohet he has told us through his word.The lady says in the good book come meet a man who has told me everything that I have done.Theres nothing left for us to do my dear brother but believe not some things but all things. I see by believing every word that proceeded out the month of God.Question: Can you see Jesus out the natural eye?Jesus has to be preached to everyone that believeth(th meaning a continuation Sunday through Saturday).See the words that I speak unto on this computer they are spirit and they are life.They are not of Tanya but christ Jesus the Lord.But if you can believe just these scrattered words its power in that.@David the saints of God can judge the world.
May 13th, 2010 at 5:31 am
1TIMOTHY4: Now the Spirit speaketh expressly,that in latter times some shall depart from the faith,giving heed to seducing spirits,and doctrines of devils;Speaking lies in hypocrisy;having there concienceseared with a hot iron;Forbidding to marry,and commanding to abstain from meats,which God has created to be recieved with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
May 13th, 2010 at 5:43 am
2nd TIMOTHY:3 FOR MEN SHALL BE LOVERS OF THEIR OWN SELVES, COVETOUS,BOASTERS,PROUD, BLASPHEMERS, DISOBEDIENT TO PARENTS,UNTHANKFUL,UNHOLY.
WITHOUT NATURAL AFFECTIONS TRUCE-BREAKERS,FALSE ACCUSERS,INCONTINENT,FIERCE,DESISERS OF THOSE THAT ARE GOOD.TRAITORS,HEADY,HIGHMINDED,LOVERS OF PLEASURES MORE THAN LOVERS OF GOD;HAVING A FORM OF GODLINESS,BUT DENYING POWER THEREOF:FROM SUCH TURN AWAY.
May 13th, 2010 at 7:45 am
David thank you for answering the question of what is love to me? You answered it the way I would have……I pray Gods’ continued blessings on you….and thank God that He gave us FREEWILL..responsibility for our own salvation.
May 13th, 2010 at 8:13 pm
I am not getting anywhere so I’ll leave it at that. I beleive in taking the Bible in a literal interpreation. I don’t see how correcting someone = not loving them unconditionally. I love my children very much but also correct them a lot too.
May 13th, 2010 at 10:52 pm
Katherine, I pray God’s continued blessings on you as well and yes, thank God he did give us freewill and that each of us is responsible for ourselves, and not anyone else, in all aspects of our lives.
Daniel I don’t think you understand unconditional love, which is loving somewhat no matter what they do or who they are. Can you honestly say that you love (agape or even philios) homosexuals? I hope so for we are commanded to love everyone as we love ourselves. And I do believe in corecting my children when they need to be corrected. But again, homosexuals don’t need to be “corrected” in my opinion.
And you don’t take the Bible 100% literally or you’d be performing blood sacrifices, stoning people, marrying your brothers wife if he dies, etc.
May 14th, 2010 at 1:19 am
You are correct when you say that I don’t fully understand conditional love. God teaches me new things every day that I didn’t know the day before. He is using this situation with you to teach me about love as well. Do you allow Him to do that same for you? I am concerned at the amount of ‘personal intrepretation’ I see from Christians on God’s word. I see Christians take certain ‘verses’ from the Bible that support their point of view but then completly discount other verses that do not. I can’t in good concience do this as I feel like I’d be making myself god instead of taking my instruction from Him. I hope you are wrong about my opinion about Homosexuals. I feel like I love them but ‘hate’ the act just as God does. And don’t try to tell me I’m putting words in His mouth or trying to speak for him. “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders” (1 Corinthians 6:9) or “Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.” Romans 1:26-27 Whenever I quote verses like this I see the oposition ’sidestep’ the verse and move on to quote a different verse. Is one verse of the Bible more relevent than another? Is so why not throw the whole thing out which is EXACTLY where this nation is turning and you are helping it happen. Now, you may try to say that I’m avoiding verses too but I have addressed your verses about love by loving the sinner and hating the sin, JUST AS GOD DOES! But I have yet to hear any of you address the verses in the Bible about Homosexuality other than to just dismiss them. If you are willing to dismiss those verses because you don’t agree with them how are you ever going to allow God to change the really hard things in your life that need changing? I agree, I need to change and be more loving to others and less selfish. God is working on this with me. Please allow Him to work on you. And don’t tell me that God does not want me to rebuke other Christians. You say it’s not my job and it’s God’s job alone. Please looks at 2 Tim 4:1-3 “In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.”
I believe that time has come according to 2 Tim. 4:3! Go to that chapter and read it yourself or just ignore it and quote some other verse.
May 14th, 2010 at 4:28 am
LOVE WILL SOMETIMES GET YOU IN TROUBLE. LOVE GOT JESUS IN TROUBLE!!!! HE DIED BECAUSE HE SO LOVED!!!!
May 14th, 2010 at 4:30 am
Danial, Let me put it this way….the interpretation of the word is personal…What is the Holy Spirit saying to each individual? God deals with each one of us one on one…and if there is wrong doing (sinning) involved HIS HOLY SPIRIT DOES THE CONVICTING….WE ARE NOT!!!!!THE HOLY SPIRIT…
..Do you love your children? sometimes don’t they do wrong things? do you yell, scream and curse them to hell or guilt and shame them to death? or do you correct them? with love and understanding? haven’t you had to then correct them again some times for the same wrong? and you forgive them again, again and again….If you do that how much more does our loving Father show us His mercy over and over…
I will not try to intrepret the verses about homosexuality specifically but I will say as the apostle Paul said….In Galations chapter 1 Paul says if anyone comes to you and preaches a different gospel let him be eternally condemmed…..Now he is not talking LAW. Paul is talking about the Gospel of Jesus Christ…the “Gospel” is Jesus not law and Paul himself fought constantly with his flesh….”The things I should not do, I do” and the things I should do I don’t……even the Apostle Paul was telling us that we would continue to battle the flesh…..but Our Father thru Jesus Christ and the shedding of His blood gives us His mercy and His Grace as if we had never sinned…..The only one that calls us to condem ourselves and live in shame when we fall short and carry the guilt and shame is the accuser of the brethren (the devil is the accuser of the brethren) and his work is to keep our focus on things such as homosexuality and abortion…and whatever other sins we think are unfogiveable sins….and treat each other with such distain because we happen to see things differently.
Let us come together and do what we are commanded to do…..LOVE and preach the Gospel (love) of Jesus Christ….and not the Law
May 14th, 2010 at 4:53 am
@KATHERINE GRACE AND MERCY GODS AMAZING GRACE. WE ALL HAVE ISSUES.YOU MAY NOY HAVE THE ISSUE OF BLOOD BUT EVERYONE IS WRESTLIN WITH SOMETHING.WHAT SHALL SEPARATE YOU FROM THE LOVE OF GOD?THE LORD IS MY SHEPARD IS HE YOURS?IF HES YOUR SHEPARD HE WILL GUIDE YOU.YES CATHERINE HE DOES(HIS HOLY SPIRIT)DEALS WITH US INDIVIDUALLY BUT WHAT HE SAY TO ONE HE SAY TO ALL.MEANING THERE IS ONE GOD ONE LORD AND ONE SALVATION.HES NOT GOING TO OK ME TO DO SOMETHING AND TELL YOU NOT TO SOMETHING.IF HE TELL YOU TO COME OUT HES GOING TO TELL ME TO COME OUT.TGFJ!!!!HE IS NOT RUNNING A COMPANY OR A ORGANIZATON.HE IS LORDS OF LORDS AND KING OF KINGS!!!!!!AMEN HEAVEN!!!HE SAID IN REVELATIONS ALL HAVE DRUNK OF HER WINE BUT HE SAID COME OUT OF HER!!!YOU GOT TO COME OUT THERE HAS TO BE A CHANGE .YOU GOT TO BE CONVICTED AND CONVERTED.ITS IMPOSSSIBLE TO REMAIN THE SAME WITH SUCH GREAT POWER!!! HE TOLD HIS DISCIPLES IM GONE TO PREPARE A PLACE FOR YOU BUT I WILL LEAVE WITH YOU THE HOLY GHOST AND THEY TELL ME THE HOLY GHOST IS A KEEPER HALALUJAH I FEEK JUST LIKE IT DAVID!!!!!
May 14th, 2010 at 5:00 am
U CANT PREACH IT KATHERINE IF ITS NOT IN YOU THE GOSPEL HAS TO BE IN YOU.PAUL HAD THE GIFT OF HEALING BUT COULDNT HEAL HIMSELF.THE GOSPEL IS IN THIS SUBJECT ON THIS INTERNET THAT HOMOSEXUALITY IS AN ABOMINATION AGAINST GOD HE MADE ADAM AND EVE NOT ADAM AND EVE AND FOR 2 SO-CALLED-PRIEST REPRESENTED GOD BEFORE SINNERS THEY CANT SEE JESUS BECAUSE HE IS AL RIGHTEOUS.HOW IN THE HELL IS THEY GONE COME OUT WHEN THEY CONDONING IT AND TELLING THE PEOPLE THAT ITS OK BEFORE THE LORD.ILL TELL YOU WHATS GOING ON THE LUTHERN CHUCH IN ATLANTA THEY REPRESENT THE DEVIL.THE DEVIL HAVE CHURCHES TO!!!
May 14th, 2010 at 5:03 am
LORD I WISH I COULD FIND THAT SCRIPURE RIGHT NOW .BUT ITS WRITTEN AT THE TABLE OF MY HEART:HOW CAN THEY PREACHED EXCEPT THEY BEEN SENT .WHO SENT THEM? DO THE HOLY GHOST BACK THEM UP?RESEARCH IT AND IT WILL LEAD YOU TO HELL AND THE DEVIL.
May 14th, 2010 at 5:08 am
@KATHERINE MAYBE ITS NOT LAW BUT I TELL YOU ONE THING IF THE LORD SENDS THE DEAF ANGEL TO TAKE YOU RIGHT NOW TO ETERNAL REST AND YO UHAVE THAT KIND OF SPIRIT IN YOUR HEART HELL WILL BE YOUR HOME. YO UCAN FIND ANY EXCUSE OUT THER YOU WANT BECAUSE IT OUT THERE JUST ANOTHER WAY TO REJECT GODS TRUTH.PEOPLE ARE STILL REJECTING JESUE BUT YO UGOT TO HERE HIM.JUST LIKE THE DAYS OF NOAH HE TOLD THE PEOPLE THAT IT WAS GOING TO RAIN AND THEY DDNT PAY HIM ANY ATTENTION.HE WAS A MAN JUST LIKE YOU AND I THEY DIDNT BELIEVE NOAH.SO KATHERINE HOW MUCH DO YOU BELIEVE!!!
May 14th, 2010 at 5:26 am
But Jesus said he did not come to remove one letter of the law. Let me give you some words straight from Jesus’s mouth whom you are saying teaches us not to talk to anyone about their sins and only to Love…”every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire”, “If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to loose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell”, Enter throught the narrow gate for wide is the gate that leads to distruction and many enter throuth it.”, “The son of man will send out his angles, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will be thrown into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”, “Not all that call me Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven. Only those who do my will.”
Amen to where you say “anyone coming to preach you a different gospel let him be eternally condemmed”. Everything I’ve said has come straight from the Bible. Every point I have tried to make has had scripture to back it up. When you say “love and preach the Gosple (love) of Jesus Christ” can you include the reference please? I know lots of verses that say to preach the Gospel but I know none that insert (love) after it. True, love is part of it but what about the Gospel of repentance? You say “interprtetation of Gods word is personal”. Where do you see that in scripture? Pure logic dictates that you you interprete scripture one way and I interprete it another way then one or both of us are wrong. There is no possible way we are both right. I’m not sayin I’m right but I have a responsibility to you and me to figure out which one of us it is so the other doesn’t keep spreading this false Gosple you’re talking about. Paul battles the flesh in accordance with Roman 6 as all Christians should. You NEVER see Paul say anything like ’since Jesus died for our sins then what Gods word says is up for you to interpret and I won’t try to tell you what to do.’ His internal struggle tells us that he was constantly trying to apply Gods word to his heart which is part of the Christian walk. Paul also writes where he repremended other Christians and called them to repentance. He rebuked Cephas in antioch. You say ‘the only one that calls us to condem ourselveds and live in shame when we fall short and carry the guilt and shame is the accuser’. Show me the scripture that says that. Yes there is scripture that says that the accuser does that but you conveinently include that he is ‘the only one’. John 16:7-8 says “But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment” So the Holy Spirt also convits of sin. If it’s true that GOd doesn’t want us to care about homosexuality then why does He even bring it up? That seems kind of odd. And I’m not saying that anything is an ‘unforgivable’ sin except not accepting Christ. And I beleive I am preching the Gospel. No one can accept the Gospel unless they first understand the Law. Why would I need a savior unless I am convinced I’m a sinner? If nothing I do is a sin and no one can convince me otherwise then why on earth would I need Jesus? And I would NEVER go up to an unbeliever who is Homosexual and talk to them about their homosexuality. If they are not saved they stand condemed reguradless of their sexual preference. My pupose here is not to offend the Homosexual it is to speak up when I hear God’s word slandered. As beleivers we are called to “Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.” See, we are to be sanctified and set appart once we accept Christ. We are called to drastically study the word of God and remove sin from our lives for Saten is like a roaring Lion looking for someone to devour”
May 14th, 2010 at 5:36 am
Tanya, and there it is!!!!!! IF, IF, IF..,…you could If yourself to death I don’t care..I know in Whom I believe..,..and I know that I know, that I know !!!!! that if the death angel came for me today I would not go to hell…..
Tanya, your are peaching the Old Testament……Jesus did not have a problem because He loved too much!!!! HE CAME SPECIFICALLY TO LAY DOWN HIS LIFE FOR US…..the angel of death came to Egypt and killed the first born of the people who did not have blood on thier house post….
Why can’t you except the simplicity of the word??? Maybe that is the problem it’s too easy…..we have to do something….suffer something….take whips of catofnine tales and flog ourself and then and only then will we be worthy of salvation….
YOU MAKE JESUS COMING TO THIS EARTH AND LAYING DOWN HIS LIFE FOR US NOT GOOD ENOUGH. Maybe you still have to make blood scarifice…….BUT THANK GOD THRU THE ONE PERFECT SACRIFICE I AM SET FREE…..proving my relationship with Christ to no one not even to my God…..becuse He knew me even before I was in my mothers womb….He knew my name KATHERINE
May 14th, 2010 at 5:47 am
Danial, when did I say that you could not confront someone about their sins????? I believe you can….BUT…..when you do you better make sure that it is the Holy Spirit that is leading and not your own flesh that judges and makes a move to pounce……if we are to be Christ like then we have to look at the way Jesus treated Mary Magdalene…..He did not shout out her sins…He did not call her a whore….He did not condem her to hell…..He told her “go and sin no more”…and no He did not tell her to remember to read her bible everyday and make sure she prays everyday…….nor did He tell her to make sure others who were sinning like her they were going to hell…..do you believe that Mary never sinned again????
May 14th, 2010 at 5:50 am
Danial talk to me again when you gouge out your eye!!!!
May 14th, 2010 at 5:53 am
Danial, the word says the accuser come to kill steal and destroy…..I challange you to look it up….it is so basic to our relationship to Christ….knowing who the devil is and ain’t
May 14th, 2010 at 6:13 am
Danial are you a biblical professor? just because a person does not agree with you on the interpretation of a scripture does not mean they are slandering the word…could it be that maybe they just are not where you are in thier growth in Christl……or MAYBE they are further along in thier growth then you…..either way we can learn from each other….Come let us reason together…..
May 14th, 2010 at 6:16 am
OLD DISPENSATION DONT DO ANTHING BUT POINT TO THE NEW ONE.KATHERINE OLD OR NEW ITS STILL JESUS.NOW DO YOU BELIEVE THAT IT SEEMS THAT YOU HAVE ALOT OF DOUBT ABOUT CHRIST.THE DIFFERENCEIN OLD AND NEW IS KATHERINE SINCE YOU WANT TO KNOW.IN THE OLD WE WOULD DIE BECAUSE GODS LAW.BUT YOUR STAKIN NASTY FLESH COULDNT KEEP IT BECAUSE IT WAS CORRUPT.IF IT WERE OLD WE WOULDNT BE HERE.BUT THE NEW IS GRACE AND TRUTH.BECAUSE IN THE OLD IF WE WERE CAUGHT IN SIN OR FOUND WITH SIN THEY WERE PERMITTED TO STONE YOU TO DEAF.NOW THE LOVE OF GOD IN THE NEW IS MECY TO WHOM HE PLS THE PERSON WITH A CONTRIE HEART.REVELATIONS IS PART OF THE NEW KATHERINE HAVE YOU READ IT LATELY OR EVER.HE TOOK JOHN ON THE ISLAND OF PATMOS.DO YOU REMEMBER THE WARNING THAT JESUS WROTE TO THE SEVEN CHURCHES THEY HAD TO GET IT.YO UDONT WANT CONTERFIET LIFE INSURANCE DO YOU?WHEN YOU DIE YOU WANT SOME INSURANCE THAT WILL PAT OFF.A HOMSEXUAL HAS TO TURN AINT KNOW WAY AROUND IT.BECAUSE THERES KNOWWAY THAT HE PERMITTED YOU NOR ME TO BE WITH ANOTHER WOMAN PLAN AND SIMPLE.AND TO PUT IT TO YOU BLUNT KATHERINE THERE WASNT ONE SOUL THAT TURNED.REMEMBER SODOM AND GOMERRAH HE HAD MERCY AND GRACE ON THEM TO BUT HE COULDNT GET ONE SOUL TO CHANGE THERE WERE HOMOSEXUALS GOING ON DO YOU RECALL? YES HE DIED FOR USE ALL BUT THROUGH HIM WE MIGHT BE SAVE YOU GOT TO BE CONVINCED AND CONVERTED THAT THIS IS GODS TRUTH.WHETHER YOU BELIEVE OR NOT HIS TRUTH IS GONNA MARCH ON EITHER OR YOUR CHIOCE ONE THING GOD DOES GIVE US A CHIOCE:ETERNAL HELL ETERNAL DAMNATION TO YOUR SOUL. YEAH, HE DID PROMISE US ETERNAL LIFE WHICH LIFE DO YOU WNAT OR ARE YOU LOOKING FOR? WHEN LIGHT COMES DARKNESS GOT TO GO IT DO NOT MIXED AND YOU AINT GONE MAKE IT MIX SO STOP TRYING!!!! EXCEPT YOU KATHERINE COME AS A LITTLE CHILD YOU SHALL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD.PRAY AND ASK HIM TO OPEN UP YOUR BLINDED EYES AND GET THE WAX OUT YOUR EARS AND TO SAVE YOU FROM A BURNING HEE LBECAUSE THATS WHERE YOU ARE HEADED IF GOD DONT INTERVENE BECAUSE WHEN YOU REJET THE WORD YOU REJECT GOD.YOU GOT TO BELIEVE EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDED OUT THE MOUTH OF GOD.ADAM AND EVE KATHERINE DONT ADD OR TAKE AWAY ADAM AND EVE.HAVE SOME CHILDREN.YOU CANT WITH THE SAME SEX.LET ME ASK YOU THIS:CAN A MAN BE A WIFE? WELL I BELIEVE IN TIMOTHY OR TITUS:IT SAYS A MAN THAT DESIRES A OFFICE OF A BISHOP HAS TO BE HAVE ONE WIFE NOT ONE HUSBAND OR ONE BOYFRIEND. LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING THE GOD THAT I SERVE IS AN INTELLIGENT GOD.I DONT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT DEMNS AND DEVIL A PERSON HAS OR HAVE PICKED UP DO-NOT-BLAME -GOD.HE IS A INTELLIGENT GOD MALE AND FEMALE MAKES BABIES AND THE WORLD WILL INDEED MULTIPY.IF YOU TELL ME IN THE BIBLE WHERE ITS JUST OK AND ITS NOT AN ABOMINATION AND GOD WILL EXCEPT THIS TYPE OF BEHAVIOR I WILL EAT START EATING THE BIBLE.
May 14th, 2010 at 6:33 am
@KATHERINE I DONT KNOW WHAT BIBLE YOU ARE READING OUT OF BUT YOU NEED TO THROW THAT BIBLE AWAY IF IT READS THAT.HOW IS THE DEVIL GONE ACCUSE YOU. TRUST ME HE AINT GONE ACCUSE YOU AND HE WILL NEVER SHOW YOU UP HE WILL ALWAYS USE JESUS NAMES AND GOD WORD TO TRICK U.HE IS A TRICKSOME.NOW A THEFT COME TO STEAL KILL AND DESTROY AND LOOK LIKE HES DOING A GOOD JOB WITH YOU.AND GUEST WHAT HE STARTS IN THE MIND THAT BATTLEGROUND.WHEN HE CAPTIVATE YOUR MIND THATS.BUT JUST LIKE U WROTE EARLY ABOUT THE GRACE OF GOD:YOU CAN COME OUT IF YOU WANT TO HE GIVEN YO UGRACE AS WE SPEAK ASK HIM TO REGULATE YOUR MIND AND SAVE YOU FROM UNTOWARD GENERATION!!!!! BECAUSE YO UDONT TALK LIKE JESUS YOU TALK LIKE A FOOLISH WOMAN!!!!THATS WHY I USE THE KING JAMES VERSION AND YOU KNOW ELSE ILL GO TO HELL WITH THIS GOSPEL THAT I HAVE BECAUSE I KNOW CHRIST WILL BE WITH ME.JUST LIKE HE WAS WITH DANIEL AND MESHAVK AND THE HEBREW BOYYS IN THE LIONS DEN.SATAN U ARE A LIAR I WILL NOT EXCEPT YOUR DOCTRINE BECAUSE ITS A DOCTINE OF HELL GET THEE BEHIND ME.I KNOW WHO YOU ARE AND KATHERINE IM NOT CALLING YOU SATAN THE SPIRIT THAT YOU CARRY YO UHAVE TO TALK TO THE DEVIL AND TELL HIM TO GO TO HELL!!!! JUST LIKE MY LORD DIDI WHEN HE TRIED TO TEMPT HIM ON THAT HIGH MOUNTAIN.JUST LIKE HE TEMPT EVE IN THE GARDEN OF EVIL.HE WAITED UNTIL HER HUSBAND WASNT AROUND HER.HE IS A TRICKSOME.HE TOLD EVE OH YOU SHOULDNT SURELY DIE TRYING TO CHANGE IT.WE GOT TO DIE DONT WE BECAUSE OF THAT.JUST LIKE HE TRICKING YOU SAYING AND WRITING WELL HIS GRACE HIS LOVE HIS MERCY JUST TRYING TO CHANGE WHAT GOD HAS PUT IN ORDER PLS PLS HERE YEA HIM IT WAS WRITTEN BEFORE I WAS THOUGHT OF COME SUJECT KATHERINE THATS ALL HERE THE MASTER VOICE. YOU NEED SOME FAITH HELL GIVE YOU THAT TOOO!!!
May 14th, 2010 at 7:38 am
Tanya, you might want to read what you just wrote and then decide who is the foolish women!! and surely you are not questioning my faith in Jesus Christ No Tanya, I am not asking you to give me the difference between the old and new testament…..because I know that before Jesus there was no GRACE…..just scrifice….Jesus was and is the PERFECT SACRIFICE….you are not very nice Tanya, you don’t have to agree with me, but to question my faith and call me a foolish women….is just plain mean…..so I am going to ask you as a women of God for an appology….
May 14th, 2010 at 11:30 am
i said you write like a foo;ish woman i ddnt say you were foolish you just sound foolish to me. i dont mean to affend you but when i get deep talking about my lord sometimes it stirr me up and i just say just how it comes.if you met me in person u wouldnt say i was mean but when it comes to christ my dear i mean what i say and have to stand on it by the power of the holy ghost!!!1FAITH:is the substance of things hope for and the evidence of things not seen!!!!! i never seen Jesus but by faith he exsist!!!
May 14th, 2010 at 11:36 am
you told daniel bout interpetation that why its so many different religions out here because of there own interpetation. the lord said lean not to your own understanding finish david.katherine you can recieve power if you grab hold to this.and i know for a fact you will nknow longer be the same. just jesus name is power by himself.because the words that i write unto you they are spirit and they are life.one good things they are not my words but christ jesus im just an intrument for christ and my prayer is continue lord to use me because if you dont use me the devil will.
May 14th, 2010 at 11:55 am
LET ME JUST TELL YOU MY TESTIMONY: IVE BEEN WITH ANOTHER WOMAN SEXUALLY I WAS GOING THROUGH SOMETHING WITH MY FRIEND WHOM I HAD BEEN DATING FOR YEARS WE HAD A BAD BREAK ALMOST HURTING KILLING ONE ANOTHER ABOUT 2 YRS AGO.I WANTED TO GIVE UP ON MY LIFE AND I WAS I A MODE WERE I DDNT CARE THIS HOW THE DEVIL GET YOU IN A PLACE TO USE U. I WAS WILLING TO TRY ANYTHING TO GET OVER MY BOYFRIEND AND THE DEVIL KNEW IT TOO. I DDNT WANT TO HURT WANT TO CRY OVER HIM ANYMORE.TO I MEAN SHE WAS TALKING TO ME ILL MAKE YOU FORGET BOUT THIS MAN BLAH BLAH BLAH AND SO ON THE DEVIL KNEW WHAT I WAS WRESTLING WITH DDNT HE TELL ME EXCACTLY WAT I WANTED TO DO.I STARTED DRINKING AND ALL.I NEVER GOT TO THE POINT TO DO ANY DRUGS THOUGH.MAYBE THIS TESTIMONY CAN ENLIGHTNEN SOMEBODY.BUT TO MAKE A LONG STORY SHORT INEVER HAD A FEEL FOR THE OPPOSITE SEX ALTHOUGH I COULD HAVE GOT DRIVEN INTO THAT SPIRIT THE LORD ALLOWED ME TO EXPRIENCE THAT FOR A REASON.I ALWAYS KNOWN THAT IVE BEEN HIS CHILD.TGFJ JUST BEEN GOOD TO ME RIGHT IN MY MESS.I LIKE MEN DONT CARE FOR A WOMAN SO ITS NOT A STRUGGLE FOR ME NOT TO DERSIRE A WOMAN REMIND ME OF THE STORY JOB HE TOLD SATAN YOU TRY HIS FAITH BUT DONT BOTUR HIS SOUL.WHEN THE DEVIL STARTS WITH YOU ITS ONE SITUATION OUT OF ANOTHER AND IF GOD DONT INERVENE HE WILL TAKE OVER.YOU CAN SAY WHAT YOU WANT TO SAT I LIKE STICKSWHAT GOD SESINE ME TO LIKE. I FELT BAD FOR A LONG TIME FOR ALLOWING THIS WOMAN TO DO SUCH THINGS TO MY BODY.AND THE DEVIL WAS LIKE LOOK AT YOU NOW.SO THE QUESTION KATHERINE THAT U ASK ME AM I TRYIN TO QUESTION YOUR FAITH HELL NO NOT BEING SELHISH OR NOTHING BUT DONT HAVE THE TIME I CAN PRAY FOR PEOPLE BUT THAT INCODENT IN MY LIFE TAUGHT ME TO GET CLOSER TO GOD BECAUSE I NEVER WOULD OF THOUGHT THATS WHY YOU SEE THAT IWRITE THE WAY I WRITE.THE DEVIL DONT CARE WHETHER YOU ARE ON THE USHER BOARD PREACHERS OR WHOEVER THE DEVIL IS PLAYING FOR KEEPS I AINT JUST TALKING OUT THE AIR I AM COMING AGAINST PERSONAL EXPERIENCE TOO.BUT IF I WAS REALLY LIKE THAT I WOULNT FOUND REPENTANCE HELL KNOW.THOSE ARE SOME STRONG DEMONS.THOSE DEMONS WILL MAKE A HUSBAND LEAVE HIS WIFE FOR ANOTHER MAN.TIS NOT ALRIGHT.
May 14th, 2010 at 2:20 pm
you are right Tanya but remember God did not send His Son into the world to start another religion….religion is mans thing…..God sent His Son so that He could have relationship with us. I would ask of you not to give the devil so much credit when it comes to us choosing to sin…And YES….we choose to sin….the word says work out your own salvation with fear and trembling……..meaning WE are responsible for our relationship with Him….It is to easy to blame the devil and not take responsibility for the choices we make…..I just don’t like it when christians use the devil as an excuse….the devil can’t make you do anything!!! because if he could he would have more power than God….that is why God gave us freewill so that out of our love for Him we would choose good.
May 14th, 2010 at 7:40 pm
the devil does have power. the only power tht he has is what god allows him to have.he cant do anything without the permission of the holy ghost.but the reason why i said it like that because the devil dont send help in the time of trouble.we cant do nothing without the lord. we wrestle not against flesh and blood but pricipalities of the air. this is a spiiritual warefare.if we could just see the demons thats out to get us we would really show nough run to christ. through the teaching of the word through the holy ghost he tells us what to beaware of these things and tell us the difference in his and the ways of satan we wouldnt know itself god has to reveal himselve unto us.that why its very important to believe every word that proceeded out the mouth of god.the gospel has to be preached unto everyone that believe. this my live this is my hope of glory that i will see him again sooner thna we think.you cant i cant worship god in the flesh in the spirit yeah!!!!!! god dont want my stankin flesh he comin back for your spirit i mean his spirit so if you dont have the spirit of god in you hes gonna say depart from me i know youo not .but those that have been wash and put on christ hes gonna say well done my good and faithful servant!!!! job was faithful indeed the devil even has his wife doubting his god she said why dont you curse your god and die.and job said you talk like a foolish woman.do you know what the devil did to job ? do you god asked him have you tried my servant job. and god permitted the devil to tempt him.
May 15th, 2010 at 1:25 am
Katherine,
You said “Danial, the word says the accuser come to kill steal and destroy…..I challange you to look it up….it is so basic to our relationship to Christ” I did not say that the Bible didn’t say that. I know it does. But what the Bible DOESN’T say is that the devil is the ONLY one that convicts of sin which is what you were trying to tell me. Also, both you and David have used the phrase “your interpretation of the scripture is personal” I’m not trying to start a debate about that, I just want to know where you heard it. Both of you have used this phrase so it must be something that is circulating out there. Can you tell me where you heard that from?
Thank You,
Daniel
May 15th, 2010 at 2:21 am
Tanya there it is God permitted satan to do the things he did to Job…..he could not do it without the permission…..why would God do such a thing? because He knew his servant Job..He knew Him……
Tanya, you are preaching to the choir….I know all the stories of the bible….there isn’t any storie that I don’t know…
It was nice talking to you, it has given me an insight to the way people take in and interpret the bible….I have been where you are looking for satan in everything and being afraid that I was under attack when things went wrong…..My father called me one day when I thought I was going crazy with the idea that I wasn’t good enough…didn’t pray enough didn’t didn’t didn’t….My father quoted me this scripture…For God has not given us a spirit of fear but, of POWER, LOVE and a SOUND MIND….so Tanya, I am going to end this coversation with you with a blessing…May the Lord bless you and keep you in His Grace and Mercy and may you find peace in your corner of the world.
May 15th, 2010 at 3:18 am
Tanya,
Acts 20:29-30 says “I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.” The people that are trying to pursuade you have the tactic of taking bits and pices of Gods word out of context and adding to it to make it say something it doesn’t say. Katherine is quoting 2 Tim 1:7 “For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.” However, she is trying to say that it means we don’t have to worry about repenting from our sins. Once again, she’s taken this verse completely out of context. If you study this verse in context it’s obviously refering to speaking the word of God and is telling us to not be afraid to speak the word of God which you have been doing during this whole blog. Let me finish the scipture for her:
8Be not thou therefore ASHAMED OF THE TESTIMONY OF OUR LORD, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the AFFLICTIONS OF THE GOSPEL according to the power of God;
9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
10But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
11Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
12For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
13Hold fast the form of SOUND WORDS, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
14That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.
May 15th, 2010 at 3:47 am
Danial, I have not heard that anywhere….I have experienced it for myself…..it would be like learning to read…we see letters we then see form….we start with see Jane run….we grow in stages. It is called growth in wisdom and knowledge and truly that is what we should all be striving for….when I was a child I thought as a child…..but now I am a grown up….have I arrived NO…my goal is to continue my journey on this road less traveled….to broaden my knowledge of the word with wisdom and grace…so that my life will bring glory to my father…..My hope for you is that you would join me on this great adventure called life….and experience the true freedom there is. go with God and may you continue to grow in wisdom and in grace…..
May 15th, 2010 at 3:54 am
Kathrine,
You’ve also accused me of teaching the “Law” and not the “Gosple”. Please go back and look at all the the scripture references I’ve used. They are all NT scripture.
May 15th, 2010 at 3:59 am
Danial, say what you want do what you want….believe what you want…..since you have all the answers and know what I am thinking and saying…..you are a thief and a robber of freedom to be and have ones own mind…
There are people who are life giving and those who are life taking…..you are the latter…. because it doesn’t matter what I say you accuse me of interpreting the word for my own benefit…..SO, YOU WHO SAY I AM SAYING WE DO NOT HAVE TO BE ACCOUNTABLE FOR OUR SINS…..IS A LIAR, A THIEF AND A ROBBER…..I WAS TELLING TANYA A STORY ABOUT MY LIFE AND MY EXPERIENCE…..AND THAT SCRIPTURE THAT MY DAD GAVE ME AT THAT TIME……WAS GIVEN TO ME IN THE TIME OF MY NEED….HOW DARE YOU!!!!! TAKE MY EXPERIENCE……AND INTERPRET IT TO MEET YOUR CRITERIA…..DO YOU NOW UNDERSTAND….INTERPRETATION!!!!!
May 15th, 2010 at 4:03 am
And my hope for you Kathrine is that you would join me in being not ashamed of the word of God and preaching the word of God as is. Most of it is very straight forward and doesn’t need individual interpratation. My prayer is that maybe somehow through all this you will “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling” and maybe question some things that you currently don’t beleive about Gods word. I hope you will go back through this whole blog, find all the scripture references, and read the whole chapter from which they come from. Then ask God what He means by them. Through out what you think you know from experience and put your faith in what God knows. I’m not asking you to read the whole Bible, just the chapters from the verses. Do not stop until you can reason what God means without contradicting Him.
May 15th, 2010 at 4:14 am
Kathrine,
I was not interpreting, I was reading it as is. I have been ‘careful’, very very careful to use scripture. Call me a liar all you want but use scripture to do so. I was angry and I appoligize for being as insensitive as I was and not considering how sensitive and area this was for you. I can tell I’ve hurt your feelings. But can you not see how your whole ‘interpretatioin’ of the scripture which comes from your ‘experience’ contradicts the word of God? I plead with you to examine Gods word and figure out how you make your belief structure valid next to the scriputres that contridit it. You talk about ‘personal interpretation’ but you refuse to interpret the scriptures that so obviously are oposite of your beliefs. I’m not saying you’re not saved, I can’t possibly know that about you. But if you are, you have a grave responsibility to honor Gods word and not twist it to match some of your beliefs. I’m sorry if this offends you but you are taking Tanya, who is a Bible beleiving Christian (I challange you to find fault in her ‘beliefs’ USING SCRIPTURE). I haven’t read all her posts but the ones I’ve read are backed by scripture where as you have said many things that are contrairy to scripture. Saved or not that ain’t right!
May 15th, 2010 at 4:38 am
You say I am a ‘robber of freedom to have ones own mind’! Once again, I’ll use scripture instead of using interpretation!
‘There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death.’
Proverbs 16:2, All a man’s ways seem innocent to him, but motives are weighed by the LORD.
Galatians 6:8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction;
“The mind of sinful man is death …; the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God” (Romans 8:6-8)
“My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways My ways,’ says the Lord.
‘For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts.” Isaiah 55:8-9
“… whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father….” Mark 8:36-38
If you are saying that I am robbing people from their own selfish, corrupt, deceitful mind then I do not consider it robbing them. Everyone is a slave to something. I would rather be a slave to God then my own wicked ways.
May 15th, 2010 at 4:57 am
And that is where you and I differ…..you assume that I am using the word to benifit me and my agenda…..you are so wrong….you do not know from whence I came and to where I am going…you can only assume, assume, and assume.
I never said that the bible was open to our own interpretation and for our own conveiences…..It is a story as old as time…in the synagogs today the scriptures are always being debated…..the reason for that is to learn…to take in what is good and throw out what is not…or maybe even put it in a holding place for later….when we come to the understanding…..of what is being taught……We are to question seek find truth…..If you think you have all truth and all knowlede and there is nothing else you need to learn….then you should be translated to heaven soon.
You have no idea who you are talking with nor do you know me…you can not put words in my mouth and interpret what I say out of your own peridiam…. I could do the same thing you do sit here and write one scripture after another…and try to prove to you that I am right……not going to happen…..I don’t need to prove myself to anyone….
I have never written on a blog before….I thought that it would be interesting to hear and participate in conversation…. In doing so I open myself up to being called an unbeliever, a lair, a foolish women……and accused of using Gods’ word to fit my own agenda……How beautiful it is come together with other believers….NOT…because if anyone can tell you that you are wrong and condem you to hell is a “christian” who thinks it is his job to straigten you out….. because after all they have all the answers and all the knowledge…Now I remember why I am a believer in exile…..
May 15th, 2010 at 5:04 am
Danial, Last words.. I AM NOT ASHAME OF THE WORD OF GOD…..I KNOW WHAT THE SCRIPTURE SAYS TO ME…AND THAT IS ALL I AM RESPONSIBLE FOR…MY RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD……NOT YOURS…..I GIVE YOU UP TO THE FATHER….FOR HE IS THE ONE THAT SENT THE HOLY SPIRIT TO HELP US…..THE END
May 15th, 2010 at 10:31 am
When did I ever say that I condem you to hell? If the scripture is open to an interpretation that is different for different people we are in serious trouble!! I’ve never heard of such a thing before. You are entering the realm of ‘relative truth’ which is just illogical. How can one thing be right for one person and wrong for another. What kind of bi-polar god would that be? Is this what you’re saying when you say ‘I know what scripture says TO ME’? And what do you mean when you say ‘to take in what is good and throw out what is not’. I’m not going to put words in your mouth as you say I always do but you leave statements like that soooo open that you leave my mouth dropped open wondering if you just said what I think you said. How am I to take that other than you saying that some parts of the Bible should be thrown out? I know that’s not what you said but you leave me having to imply that because I don’t know what you’re saying. Now, I want to say that if you are saying that you believe that some parts of the Bible should be thrown out then I totally understand your point of view. Don’t agree with it, but I understand. But this whole time I’ve been assuming that you belive the Bible as truth and I’ve been trying to show you that there’s no way that you beleive the bible is truth because you don’t beleive some of the things it says. And I’m not saying that you are “purposely” using the word to benifit your agenda. I’m saying that’s the natural result from allowing yourself the freedom to interpret the word of God other than it’s context and intent. Let me give you a prime example. Once God told me something was wrong in my life and said I needed to change. I did not want to change. The change was the scariest thing I’d ever been through in my life!! If I had given my flesh any type of wiggle room to say something like “well maybe I can interpret it this way instead” I would not have obeyed God ’cause I’m telling you this thing was HARD and SCARRY! However, my fear of the Lord and belief in His word as truth compelled me to trust Him and do what he said. What a faith builder it was when I found God worked it out when I listened to Him!! Whenever I have any doubts or my faith wavers I always have that event to remember how great my God is!! If you don’t take the word of God at face value and are allowing yourself to interpret it other than what it says then you may be robbing yourself of seeing the greatness of God and what awesome things Faith can do. And the worst part about that is the Bible says that Faith is the only way we can please God. And you say ‘I never said that the bible was open to our own interpretation’. Look at your post from May 14th at 4:30 where you say ‘Let me put it this way….the interpretation of the word is personal…What is the Holy Spirit saying to each individual?’ You also say ‘just because a person does not agree with you on the interpretation of a scripture does not mean they are slandering the word” I know you say I put words in your mouth but what could you possibly mean other than saying that the word has different interpretations for different people? Isn’t that the same as saying it’s open to interpretation? The thing is Katherine, you’re not alone in your beliefs at all. I can just hear Oprah giving you a ‘way to go girl’. This is end of times stuff we’re dealing with here. I hope your eyes are opened to the truth before that time comes. Again, I’m not saying your going to hell, but even us believers have to stand accountable at the Great Throne Judgment. Rev. 20:12 “And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.”
May 16th, 2010 at 11:15 am
toDanial, Now I am not saying that there are parts of the bible that are good and parts that are not….
Let me ask you a question..Do you believe everything your Pastor preaches? Do you ever question his interpretation of the scripture? or do you go home after a church service looking up scripture he quoted and asking God to help you understand how that scripture works in your life…DON’T BE A STUPID SHEEP!!!!
We are encouraged to seek truth and know that what we are hearing from the pastor (his interpretation) is truly what the word says….That is what I am saying….work out your own salvation with fear and trembling…we need to seek the truth of the word for ourselves….
When the Lord asked you to change something that needed to be changed in your life..you did it…..did you then turn around and tell all your friends and family that it was wrong for them to do?
We are individuals God speaks to us through his word…He does not speak to us the same what might be good for you may not be good for me and so forth….Danial, we all interpret the word……sometimes we understand it and sometimes we don’t…..
I am a believer who has heard the word….love the word….and live the word…do I fall short….YES…I know that my God loves me and created me in His image….
we can have different interpretations of what scripture is saying….and we can agree to disagree…..it doesn’t make you more of a christian then I…..
May 17th, 2010 at 10:20 am
@KATHERINE JUST ANSWERIN YOUR QUESTIOALOT N TO DANIEL DO I BELIEVE EVERYWORD THAT COMES OUT HE PREACHER MOUTH?NO NOT CAUSE I DONT WANT TO BUT EVERYONE HAS SOME UNBELIEVE IN THEM IF IT WASNT SO EVERYONE WOULD BE ON ONE ACCORD AND THIS CONVERSATION WOULDNT EVEN EXSIST.A LOT OF US DONT BEILEVE IN CHRIST LIKE WANTS US TO.IF SO WE WOULD HAVE THAT FAITHIN HIM MORE WE WOULDNT HAVE A LOT OF LIKE STRUGGLES THAT EVEN COMES DOWN TO GETTIN SICL IN YOUR BODY?SO IF I FIND SELF WEAK IN THAT AREA I WILL ASK FOR HELP!
May 17th, 2010 at 7:44 pm
Thank you Katherine for your words of wisdom. With free will comes freedom of thought and with that comes differences between people, in everything from what car they drive to how they interpret scripture. Daniel you feel that a “literal” interpretation of scripture is best but scripture is full of things that can’t be taken literally, for example the moon will not literally turn to blood in the end times as Revelation says. That planet will not magically turn into blood, yet it is in scripture. It has a different than literal meaning. And, as Katherine states, how you see scripture isn’t how she or I see scripture. Do you know that there are people with their Ph.D.’s in theology that both would agree with you and completely disagree with you? AND THAT’S OK. For me, we ought to be emphasizing our COMMONALITIES IN CHRIST NOT OUR DIFFERENCES. Do we all agree that we are saved by grace through faith in the atoning work of Christ’s death and resurrection? Yes? Then lets celebrate our brotherhood and sisterhood together in Christ and leave the rest to God. I know what you’re going to say Daniel, that Christians must be reproved, rebuked, and corercted when they are wrong. Well there’s disagreement about who, what and whan that ought to be so why don’t you pray for them for your concerns and then love them with all your heart and soul and commune with them as fellow believers? I believe the church is as ineffective as it is today because we are so divided and waste so much time with in-fighting and finger pointing.
May 18th, 2010 at 5:02 am
Katherine,
I will answer each specific question you asked me. I wish you would do the same for me.
Q:’Do you believe everything your Pastor preaches?’
A: No. There is only one thing I heard my paster say that I didn’t agree with and that was that in the end times he said the Antichrist will not be a literal person and is instead a system. However, I concede that my interpretation of the scripture may be wrong. SEE THE DIFFERENCE! If my interpretation is wrong then I’M WRONG PERIOD. You are saying that two different interpreations can be right and that just ain’t possible. If you say 2 + 2 =4 and I say 2 + 2 = 3 we ain’t both right.
Q: “did you then turn around and tell all your friends and family that it was wrong for them to do?”
A: When put in the right situation yes. But I had to prayerfully make sure I wasn’t boasting. For example, when I found out it was wrong for me to not disciplin my children I did later go back to family members and let them know that letting their kids run the roads wild was wrong.
Statement: You say we all interpret the word?
Reply: No way that I agree that there are multiple interpretations of the truth. No way, and never. David in an ealier post said Jesus came to bring unity which is a noble cause which I see both you and David trying to do. But let me quote Jesus, “Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”
Statement: we can have different interpretations of what scripture is saying”
Reply: You are correct, but there’s only one that’s right. It’s called absolute truth. Without submitting to the abolute truth of the word of God I would not be yealding Him absolute authority of my life.
You may wonder why not just let live. I’ve told you and David that I don’t necessarly believe that you are not saved because you don’t interpret the scriptures correctly. David seens to think that Christianity would be more enjoyable if it we never questioned each other’s interpretation to the scripture. I in turn view what this church in Chicago is doing as more devistating to the church than anything! Follow my train of thought here. I’ve listed the verses in the Bible that FLAT OUT say homosexuality is wrong. If you allow people wiggle room there then what else isn’t wrong? David or Katherine, can you tell me what is a sin? Please answer me and prove it. Because now that you’ve said the I can’t use scripture to prove that Homosexuality is a sin you’ve lost all ability to prove that anything is wrong thus eliminating the need for a savior. Do you know how sinful, rotten, deceitful my heart is???? But do you know how many ways I could possible justify or wiggle out of calling anything in my life a sin if I tried hard enough? I’m not on here trying to condemn people that are homosexuals. I’m here speaking the word of God as is and feel sorry for anyone who may be sucked into a ‘Christian’ church that doesn’t convict, because only with conviction does salvation come. Do you see the ‘WIDE GATE’ that is being opened to heard people through? The gate to salvation is not wide, Jesus says it’s narrow. Do you see how no matter what you or David or anyone else says that I will never change my mind. Why do you think that is? The thing that is so interesting to me is that whenever I try to tell you why I beleive what I’m saying is the truth I use scripture and you always avoid it. You go on stating the same things without confronting the scripture that has been put in front of you. Don’t you see what a slipery slope that is? Confrontation is hard and submission is even harder. If you give me a way out of one verse of the Bible I’m throwing the whole thing away and just living life the way I choose! I’m telling you that about myself as a fact! And this whole interpreation thing. I just don’t understand what there is to interpret about those verses. I’ve yet to hear another alternative to what they mean. You say interpretation but by your refusal to interpret I must assume you mean ‘thow out’ as you implied earlier. That’s the only way I can make your viewpoint make sense.
May 18th, 2010 at 5:03 am
David, I cry out to God everyday for christian leadership.. Where did they all go? and why are they not addressing this judgemental intolerants? Why, is the church so fearful? and so set on damning everyone to hell if they don’t believe the way they do?
Where is the LOVE? and healing power that God has given each one of us?
If the church keeps going the way it’s going we will remain ineffective…..We the body of Christ need to SNAP out of it…..understand who we are in Christ….show the mercy and grace of our heavenly Father…live….Let our light so shine that they may see our good works and glorify Our Father which is in heaven.
Alot less talk of hell and satan!!!! and more showing of GODS’ GRACE….
May the Lords grace be upon you and your household David….and may He continue to enlighten and strengthen you to continue to speak and seek truth.
May 18th, 2010 at 6:29 am
Danial, let me put you at rest…I pray that God would continue to enlighten you and that you will continue to grow in the word.
It makes me sad to think that someones interpretation when it doesn’t agree with yours so ROCKS your truth!!!! are you serious that all I have to do is interpret the scripture and prove to you that what I believe is truth and then you will throw out everything?
Please, please, please tell me the correct way to interpret scripture? because evidently David and I according to you are not.
Danial, don’t put your words on others or your way of doing things….. Are You a WIGGLER? you are judgeing others thru your own paradiem….we are all different I am not a wiggler and do not look for ways to get by what God is telling me to do..you are talking about loop holes..NOR when God speaks to me about correcting something in my life….. do I take it upon myself to then make it law for everyone…..
Danial, when God sent His Holy Spirit and called you to Him and you accepted Him as your Lord and Savior….did He then impower you with all the answers and tell you that you now had all the right to condem anyone you wanted to because now you were a christian and had all truth?
Or did He say GO AND SIN NO MORE…..GRACE GRACE and more GRACE…..we all fall short of the Glory of God, none of us has all the answers….we are called brethren.. He came to bring unity to the believers…..How about the scripture that says a house devided against itself shall fall!!!! that is the unity that David was speaking of….
And if you believe that it is the churches reponsibility to convict….then what is the job of the Holy Spirit? there are those who prepare the ground, others that sow the seeds those that water and nurture and those who harvet…..I don’t read anything about convicting anyone….maybe we can guilt them into believing….
When a person says he is a believer and does things that according to you are sins….don’t condem him for his belief because as we grow and are nurtured those things that are not good in our lifes will be put away….It is the Holy Spirit that convicts it is the renewing of your Mind….layer upon layer
God is the best surgeon He doesn’t come in with a knife and rip us open. He comes in with such love and understanding and begins to remove hurts, guilt and shame from us layer by layer….one day we will be like Him….
May 18th, 2010 at 8:52 am
Katherine,
We keep going in circles. You obviously know some scriptures but a theam throuout our conversations is how you bring them up out of context. Again and again you do this. One more that is added to the list is ‘a house divided against istelf shall fall’. Do you know what story Jesus was telling when he used this scripture or is it just a scripture you quoted because it seams to fit this circumstance? Is has nothing to do with what you’re talking about! I’m not even looking at my Bible right now to look that one up and I can tell you Jesus said that to tell you how you could tell he wasn’t a deamon. You keep using scripture out of context like that. I have studied the Bible over and over again. Not just pulling out sciptures but trying to figure out what Jesus meant when he said the things he said. It’s a very important thing to know. You say that Christians should talk less about hell and satan. Did you know that Jesus spoke more about hell then about heaven? You’ve asked me the correct way to interpret scripture. The answer is to take it IN CONTEXT! You and David keep quoting verses that are not applied in context at all. I can read the back of a medicine bottle and see that it says to ask my doctor if I’m taking sedatives. Does that mean I’m supposed to call the Dr. right now? No, it means to call the Dr. only if I’m planning on taking the medicine! If it’s not the believers Job to convict why did Paul do it? Why did other appostels do it? Can you tell me? Over the last several years I’ve dedicated a good portion of my time reading through the Bible, studinging it, being engaged in Bible study. Does that mean I have all the answers? No. But I can tell you I know a lot more than when I started. Verses I thought meant one thing I found out really fast meant something else. You are soooooo right when you talk about God’s forgiving grace. Did you read Romans 6 when I asked you to? Did you read any of the chapters that I asked you to? Are you sure you want to because I think you’ll find some things that you will have a very hard time interpreting. Again you’ve asked me what the correct way to interpret scripture is. Dog gonit, I’m just asking you to look at them and try to interpret them. I know that’s not fair of me to say, but so far EVERY scriptur I’ve brougt up you’ve skipped over!!!! You’re not even trying to interpret them!! You use the same method of switching to a different scipture and then you call it interpreting. For your own good, please dig into the Bible and take a look at those scirptures you’ve been avoiding. THey are in the Bible for a reason. I know you do not think you are avoiding them and you may not be. But, I never even hear you attempt to address them. And I’m not just talking about Homosexuality. I have yet to find a scripture that I quoted where you said ‘well I interpret that to mean…..’. You always just switch to a different scripture. I honestly have spent too much time on this site already. I’m sorry, I know I’ve come across rude and I’m really not as rude as I seem. I will keep reading the Bible and maybe someday God will tell me that you were right through his word. But you have not helped because you have not talked to me using scripture. You’ve used your words.
May 18th, 2010 at 9:55 am
Danial, I am sorry if you think that I am avoiding giving you answers by not quoteing scripture… David and I are not quoteing scripture out of context..maybe, we just see something that you don’t….I am not waiting for you to come to the place where you say I was RIGHT….it is not about being right it is about coming together and having conversation learning from one another. Taking in what is relevant to us (now I am not saying that there are parts of the bible that are not relevant) I am saying that there are differences in the way we interpret the scripture…you know what? here is the last thing that I am going to say about this….each one of us will stand before God and give an account of our lives….then and only then will we know real truth….because the one who sent the Living Word to us will reveal all truth…
So Danial, it has been quite an experience talking to you. May you continue to grow in the knowledge and truth of the word.
Freedom is wonderful in Christ….I have been where you are….keep going and growing
May 18th, 2010 at 8:27 pm
An idea came to me last night that may help us both. Have you ever listened to a podcast before? Do you have a pastor that preaches on the radio that you like to listen to? Most radio preachers have a podcast that you can download. How about for two months I listen to a podcast of a pastor of your choice and you listen to a pastor of my choice. That way we both have the chance for the Holy Spirit to work on us. Even if you don’t want to do this I would like to hear your recomendation so I can listen to another point of view as I’m currious as to how a pastor reconsiles this viewpoint with scripture.
May 19th, 2010 at 6:55 am
Danial, Danial, Danial, First of all I have been on the main floor of most of these radio pastors…..I was on the ground floor of the beginning of Christian TV ministry…Paul Crouch, Jim and Tammy Baker….Pat Robertson, then you have Hagee, Hagard,Dobsen, Joyce Mayers, Olsteen, and so on and so on there are just to many to mention..
I am going say this to you….I have also seen many ministries fall because of sexual infidelity..be it same sex or headrosexual…..I am saying that Ye who are without sin cast the first stone…..how can we as sinners saved by grace speak condemnation to anyone…..right? wrong? these great spiritual leaders were preaching Gods word to hundreds of thousands of people….many came to Jesus though the ministries…..while they were living the lives they were living….How do you explain God using them when what they were doing in secret is sinful……..they were preaching to the people the very things they were struggling with….they were preaching to the choir…as they say….to themselves….how about that, yet many came to the Savior thru their preaching…
God is the one that calls people to the ministry….so if He has called these two gay pastors to the ministry…who are we to question their relationship with the same Savior that you and I serve?
I am talking about GODS GRACE….He knowing that we would continue in our sins laid down His Life to bring us redemption once and for all.
May 19th, 2010 at 10:57 am
I knew you would find some way out of this. I’m sorry. I follow God and his word as it has been for thousands of years. I will not join this new Katherine religion you’re talking about.
May 19th, 2010 at 11:52 am
How dare you!!!!!! I have never been so insulted…what kind of a man are you? Oh, I know I was suppose to go along with your ipod suggestion…and because I didn’t you are now saying that I am trying to convert you to Katherineism…..
..No, it is not my job to convience you or convert you….I have never belittled , you think nor have I called you a close minded nit wit……I was just sharing from where I come…..
This one thing I know…..and I have learned…..thru my many years serving the Lord…..that what I was taught as a child and what I have learned along my many years in the ministry is so different….
So MISTER, YOU WHO HAVE ALL THE ANSWER…..you did good you can pat yourself on the back becuse SEE YOU GOT ME……I hope that it brings you much joy…..and that you can go to God in prayer tonight and brag about what you accomplished today.
I HAVE NO IPOD…..HOW IS THAT!!! SO I GUESS WE ARE EVEN…
May 19th, 2010 at 8:53 pm
Daniel, I was once where you are now. I grew up in very conservative churches, in a very conservative family, learned that scripture is the path for our lives and the final authority on what is true or not true. I had everything neatly arranged in my box and had an answer for everything. All was black or white and crystal clear in my thinking and I had verses to back up what I believed. But as I grew as a person physically and emotionally and studied scripture as I experienced that thing known as “life”, I began to realize that there is MUCH more gray than black and white and that most scripture of scripture was never intended to be black or white. Now I know what you’re thinking, I’m a relativist, and I assure you I am not. I believe in absolute truth though I now realize that our ability, as flawed humans, to find absolute truth in scripture is extremely difficult. I also believe, contrary to your view, that much of scripture does not have just one meaning nor was intended to.
Having said that, I do believe in doctrines of scripture that are essential for the believer. But for me, I could probably count them on one hand. Read the Apostles Creed, that about sums it up for me. Beyond that we are not, in my opinion, talking about beliefs necessary for salvation. For anyone to imply that ANY lifestyle can keep someone from Christ’s saving grace is completely unbiblical. We ALL continually live in sin even once we become saved, but we continue to work out our salvation by stiving to not be slaves to sin but slaves unto God.
Once anyone believes that his or her beliefs on ANY subject are the correct ones and that any other beliefs other than their onw are incorrect, in my opinion that person has become closed-minded and should really be careful about pride blinding his mind.
As Katherine has said so many times, our job here on earth is not to judge people but to love people, for how is God who is indescribable described in scripture? God is love. If we were to spend our time loving people at all costs and bringing people together in relationship, we’d find no time to judge.
May 21st, 2010 at 12:46 am
All I continue to hear is your words which mean nothing to me. They get caught up in the noise of everyone else’s words. Until you talk to me in scripture there is nothing to hear but the words of a mortal man who has the potential to be blided by his own experiences and feelings.
And Katherine. You get upset because I say I’m not going to follow your religion but I’m not allowed to get upset when you call me a stupid sheep? Sounds like a double standard to me. That’s what happens when you focus on the relative rather than the absolute!
RELATIVE TO MY POINT OF VIEW: From my point of view you’re choosing to not see because there’s something about Gods word that troubles you so you do not want to embrase the whole thing.
RELATIVE FROM YOUR POINT OF VIEW: You probably view me as judgemental and missing the point of the Gospel.
FROM AN ABSOLUTE VIEW (Gods view): We’ve probably both been wrong about things but without using the scripture and only using our relative points of view how to we know. That’s been my point the whole time. The scriptures do give us absolutes and are not open to interpretation. If they were we’d all be living in the relative and steping all over each other like we are now. THat’s why I’ve been adament about using scripture in discussing our differences because it’s absolute. Without it, we’re bound to walk this planet going our own paths.
May 21st, 2010 at 12:53 am
And David. What if those ‘doctrins of scripture that are essential to the believer’ are ’spcriptures that have more than one meaning’. Using that logic I can say that Jesus isn’t the only way and that the Bible is full of good ideas on how to lead your life. I could also argue that Jesus is not really the son of God and just a good teacher and that the reserection never happend. I know you’re not going to listen to me any more than I’ve been listening to you I just really feel that’s a very slipery slope your on and to teach it to others could be devistating to their eternity.
May 21st, 2010 at 3:50 am
Danial, I never called you a stupid sheep….I said don’t be a stupid sheep, there is a difference. You know what Danial? it is sad that the only way that someone can have a diccussion with you is to speak in litteral scripture….and then you turn around and say that we are taking scripture out of contexts…
You know something? this whole conversation with you has been very good for me….it reminds me why I made the dicisions that I have made regarding my growth….not much has changed!
May 21st, 2010 at 5:11 am
Danial, I was just thinking….the reason why I wrote on this blog….it was not to convince or convict…it was that maybe we could be less hell and brimstone and more Grace and Mercy….
When you write and accuse me of taking scripture out of contexts and that I am not convinceing you to believe my way..then what I say in your point of view is garbage……and that is the problem…
So all this time we have been having this dialoge you assume that we haven’t been listening to you…..and therefore you can then say I am not listening to you. There again, you judge us according to what you do..
Are you a mind reader?, because I have spent all this time listening to you and for you to assume that I am doing what you have done… not listening….then you have been lieing this whole time…you have no interest in other views because as far as your concern there is no other view.
that saddens me…be at peace
May 21st, 2010 at 8:41 am
And that’s where we differ. It’s not that I’m not listening to you. I am hearing what you say, but I am careful not to take anything in other than the scripture. That’s why I’m trying to get you to speak using scripture to back up what you’re saying. Since I believe that the scripture is the one and only guide for my life, I can not refuse the scrptures that you give me. Therefor if you give me a scripture that does not fit my views you will convice me 100% of the time that I need to change my views. To be completly honest with you, the only thing in this whole blog that has impacted me where I had to sit down and examine what and why I believed what I do is when David quoted the scripture about stoning your children. Other than that, the things that you all say that do not have scripture attached to them don’t really penitrate my belief system.
May 21st, 2010 at 8:54 am
I also wanted to add. You say you want less hell and brimstone but if you read that Bible that’s a majority of it. Even Jesus spoke very seriously about the consequences of sin and about wailing and knashing of teeth. I don’t understand why you would want to depart from His teachings. You are afraid that the ‘hell and brimstone’ talk scares people away? Isn’t it God that convicts? If he leads a pastor or any of his flock to speak on hell and brimstone and thats what the Holy Spririt uses to convict I don’t see how that’s a bad thing. I beleive in speaking the scripture as is and letting God deal with if people accept it or not. That’s his job, not mine. I was teaching Sunday School once and there was a new girl in the class that I could tell was trying to change her life. I had a special love in my heart for her. The topic of Homosexuality came up and I could tell she didn’t want to hear what God had to say on the subject but she was listening intently. I did not want to talk about it for her sake but I had to speak Gods word and let God deal with the results. I was careful to make sure the whole class knew that they better not look down on anyone for any sin because the Bible doesn’t hold one transgression as worse than another and there’s no way that any one of us can say we are better than anyone else because the Bible says no one is good, but that yes the Bible does consider it a sin. The girl did not come back which you and David would say validates your fears. However, if I speak a lie and she stays then what good have I done her sole? I pray for her often but I release the results of her sole to God. There was also a time when my niece had a favorite dog that we had to put down. My mother-in-law wanted me to lie and say that I gave her to a co-worker but I would not. I agreed not to bring it up but told her that if my niece asked me straight up that I could not lie. That mad my mother-in-law very angry but I have to do what God says. That theam is consistant througout Gods word.
May 21st, 2010 at 9:27 am
And I know you guys are going to jump all over me about the Sunday School think but let me ask you what my job is as a Sunday School teacher? Is it to just stand there and read scripture and tell the kids that the interpretation is up to them? They don’t want that. They know a cop out when they here it. They want an answer. What does this verse mean….why does God say that..etc. And let me further include a link that includes a statement from the publisher of the Sunday School ciriculum.
http://www.lifeway.com/article/157420/
May 21st, 2010 at 10:16 am
Danial, please stop telling me what you think my response will be…..(jump all over you?) this conversation is going around and around and the end results is the same you believe the way you believe and I believe the way I believe…..
That does not give us the right to say one is more a believer than the other….
Again, yes there are many things that are a sin…and will keep us from heaven….but my point is the same who are we to judge ones heart….and thier relationship with God……
To whom much is given much is required……we have been given much grace and should then in return show mpre GRACE
May 21st, 2010 at 11:09 am
Well then maybe we don’t disagre as much as we think we do. I never said that I’m judging anyone’s heart or their relationship with God. I’ve said that Homosexuality is a sin as according to the Bible and I thought you said you disagreed with that statement. And I beleive that the only sin that will keep you out of heaven is not putting your faith in Jesus Christ. Once you do that you change because you’re saved, you don’t change to get saved. I do beleive that if you’re not chaning you need to evaluate your life and if you’ve ever actually accepted Christ and I beleive that I’m commanded to challange another brother in Christ that is sinning with love and compassion but I still can’t ‘judge’ if they are saved or not. I can see the fruit of salvation but it’s not my job to figure out if they are or arn’t saved. But I do think it’s my job to talk to someone about their sin.